Elemental design A5-350 owners need your input

[robc1976]

I actually did a lot of research on this LOL!!! Trust me...where these are placed makes a unbeliavable difference....crazy sounding LOL!!

Here is a pic without the Rf-82II (Had RF-42II) before but is Still sounded great....I will post some tommorow...but this gives you a pretty good idea. I did have heights ye...still mounting these LOL!! The heights will go at a 45 degree angle between the wides and fronts. Fronts are at 30 dergrees and trhe wuides at 60 degrees.

[Ironsave]

[When I had them set to 80Htz it seems like the detailed sounds where not played?? Like say a gun is shot and you here the casings hit the ground....at 40 Htz it seems a lot more pronounced...at 80 Htz I barely hear it.

Now you are getting my point.

This is exactly what I was tring to guide you towards. Many times, when the sub AND the mains play the same sound, the detail and clarity is compromised.

Even though it is mostly gaming and HT, playing music when experimenting can help you keep the clarity part honest.

Thanks. It is nice when someone "gets it".

Enjoy.

Without you explaining it I would never had understood....you are a good teacher.

2 more questions:

1. When the sub is et at 120Htz amd it plays up to 120Htz....how low does it go? Does it depend on the specifications on the sub?

2. I am using one of those monster subwoofer plug-ins (link below), does this hurt the performace of the sub and is it needed?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOpTOTyDJyu/p_119MPSW200/Monster-Power-SW-200.html

1. The sub still goes down to (18hz in your case) as low as possible.

But set at 120hz for the high, it may be using some or a lot of the power available on the upper frequencies instead of hitting harder on the low frequencies.

(Wasted effort IMHO, because the mains already have that covered).

2. The monster plug is not needed as long as you have your subwoofer amp grounded properly as well as using a surge protector. (To prevent damage to the sub amp if a power spike; etc)...

[Ironsave]

I actually did a lot of research on this LOL!!! Trust me...where these are placed makes a unbeliavable difference....crazy sounding LOL!!

Here is a pic without the Rf-82II (Had RF-42II) before but is Still sounded great....I will post some tommorow...but this gives you a pretty good idea. I did have heights ye...still mounting these LOL!! The heights will go at a 45 degree angle between the wides and fronts. Fronts are at 30 dergrees and trhe wuides at 60 degrees.

Can't wait for the revised version....

Looks sweet.

[willland]

To clarify:

If I set my speakers to 40-60 HTz and my sub at 120Htz I will get bass up to 120htz and my speakers will play 40-60 htz and up? Am I understanding this correctly?? I hope Iam not annoying everyone with these newbie questions LOL!

When you say "my sub at 120Hz", are you referring to the subs internal crossover or the LFE setting on the Denon? If you are referring to the A5-350's internal crossover, then read on.

If you are using the Denon to control all bass management and you are using it's line level subwoofer out RCA connection(LFE channel and speaker crossovers), set the internal crossover in your A5-350 to 150Hz (which will completely disable it as if you turned it to the off position) so as to not have the sub and the receiver both competing for the same job. Let the Denon control each speakers crossover and the LFE(.1, .2, etc.) channel. The only controls that are now active in your A5-350 are volume and phase.

Bill

[robc1976]

To clarify:

If I set my speakers to 40-60 HTz and my sub at 120Htz I will get bass up to 120htz and my speakers will play 40-60 htz and up? Am I understanding this correctly?? I hope Iam not annoying everyone with these newbie questions LOL!

When you say "my sub at 120Hz", are you referring to the subs internal crossover or the LFE setting on the Denon? If you are referring to the A5-350's internal crossover, then read on.

If you are using the Denon to control all bass management and you are using it's line level subwoofer out RCA connection(LFE channel and speaker crossovers), set the internal crossover in your A5-350 to 150Hz (which will completely disable it as if you turned it to the off position) so as to not have the sub and the receiver both competing for the same job. Let the Denon control each speakers crossover and the LFE(.1, .2, etc.) channel. The only controls that are now active in your A5-350 are volume and phase.

Bill

I turned the internal crossover to 180Htz as high as it will go...I have the sub set to 120Htz thru the denon and it is hooked up with a single sub cable (No splitter) into the LFE channel. I have the phse set to "0".

[robc1976]

But set at 120hz for the high, it may be using some or a lot of the power available on the upper frequencies instead of hitting harder on the low frequencies.

(Wasted effort IMHO, because the mains already have that covered).

That makes sense, so set the crossover at 80-100Htz...also the specs on the sub say "frequency response is 18-100Htz" so does that mean it can not even go to 120htz??? Would there even be a point to setting it that high if it cant go that high LOL!!

[JasonJCarney]

That sounds good.

[robc1976]

That sounds good.

Thanks!! I will get you some pics here in a few....placing the sub right now......doing the "Subwoofer crawl" LOL!!

[JasonJCarney]

Lol... Sub crawl. Never did that. My friend placed his eD sub like that and it worked great.

[robc1976]

I dont do this around friends LOL!! I will say it was well worth it though....I have the fronts at 40Htz the surrounds at 60Htz and the center at 80 Htz. The detail I was missing when I had them at 80Htz is astounding!! what a difference!! I have the sub at 100Htz and that sub hits so hard the neighbors across ththe street heard it LOL!! That is with a 300watt amp...getting the 500 wattt RMS amp in a few days, beggining to think I don't need it LOL!!

[JasonJCarney]

Yeah the sub is nasty. Your also getting slot more bass out of your towers now so that is helping. You'll be real happy when u get your 500 watt amp

[robc1976]

Yeah the sub is nasty. Your also getting slot more bass out of your towers now so that is helping. You'll be real happy when u get your 500 watt amp

Yeah it is insane...I honestly cant imagine a louder sub.....when I was in my room I had a bass CD in and it was hard to breath LOL!!

[Gorm]

Let me get this straight.....u have rf82ii's right? 8 inch woofers right? And you set your speakers to "small"? Why?

I have ever speaker on my system set to small. The crossoves are set to 40hz...anything below that the subs take over...I really like the sound when doing this. Then again...I came from the world of car audio before this...so I'm a bit of a bass head.

[Big Dog]

I have a question about an issue raised earlier in this post.

The issue concerns how much is too much for a subwoofer. If you set all of you speaker to small with a crossover of 80hz, then the subwoofer is going to produce the sound of the LFE channel ( the 0.5 ) and the sound of the front left, center, front right, 2 surrounds that is under 80 hz.

Here is the quote from ironsave

It is only one woofer; capable of playing only so much at once; without becoming "muddy". (a 15" sub might be more susceptible to this, it is a bigger woofer requiring more energy to keep moving).

My understanding is that the main issue is that the subwoofer is designed specifically for these lower frequencies and will produce them much better than most speakers and that the main issue is about the directivity at some frequency. I can't tell the direction of the sound under 80hz, so it is all about producing the best sound in the room, not about where it is coming from and the whole HRTF (Head-Related Transfer Functions) stuff. I have never read that a subwoofer could be overloaded with too many different types of sounds ("playing so much at once"). Is this an issue or not?

[Youthman]

I have never read that a subwoofer could be overloaded with too many different types of sounds ("playing so much at once"). Is this an issue or not?

I would say that subs are designed by nature to reproduce frequencies 120 hz and below. I persoanlly prefer my sub set around 80hz as I do not like too much midbass coming through it. I set my mains to large, center to small and surrounds to small.

To me, it's all personal preference. If there were a "perfect setup", we all would be looking at one diagram and adjusting our systems to match it. []

Try different configurations and determine what sounds best to you. What might sound muddy to some might sound amazing to another. Remember, each of our ears hear differently and each of our rooms are unique to our setup.

[elitedemo]

I would say that subs are designed by nature to reproduce frequencies 120 hz and below. I persoanlly prefer my sub set around 80hz as I do not like too much midbass coming through it. I set my mains to large, center to small and surrounds to small.

thats different, typically you keep your center set to whatever your mains are, large large or small small, i found having all set to small really improved the preformance of the subwoofer and overall impact of the system, i did like the sound of the large large but the impact of small small was superior in my setup and large small sounded quite uneven to me

[Ironsave]

I stand by my statement.

I too, come from a world of car audio.

If I cross my car sub at let's say 100; the bass drum hitting is less distinct. It kind of blends in, and does not hit with authority.

If I cross at 50hz, it hits harder because it is not also playing the midbass frequency. (Trying to play both makes it muddy).

I hear the same thing in home audio, perhaps not quite as pronounced; because the room is much larger, and the acoustic enviornment is totally different.

My goal is to help others; and give different setup ideas; to allow a bigger set of options to choose from.

As Youth and many others (including me) said; it really does come down to personal preference and your ears.

[robc1976]

I stand by my statement.

I too, come from a world of car audio.

If I cross my car sub at let's say 100; the bass drum hitting is less distinct. It kind of blends in, and does not hit with authority.

If I cross at 50hz, it hits harder because it is not also playing the midbass frequency. (Trying to play both makes it muddy).

I hear the same thing in home audio, perhaps not quite as pronounced; because the room is much larger, and the acoustic enviornment is totally different.

My goal is to help others; and give different setup ideas; to allow a bigger set of options to choose from.

As Youth and many others (including me) said; it really does come down to personal preference and your ears.

I totally agree work this....taking your advice was the biggest improvement to my systym....so much more detail and harder hitting bass where it should be. My Dad also took your advice and loved it.....80htz sounds like crap compared to what I have now.

[Heritage_Head]

I have a question about an issue raised earlier in this post.

The issue concerns how much is too much for a subwoofer. If you set all of you speaker to small with a crossover of 80hz, then the subwoofer is going to produce the sound of the LFE channel ( the 0.5 ) and the sound of the front left, center, front right, 2 surrounds that is under 80 hz.

Here is the quote from ironsave

It is only one woofer; capable of playing only so much at once; without becoming "muddy". (a 15" sub might be more susceptible to this, it is a bigger woofer requiring more energy to keep moving).

My understanding is that the main issue is that the subwoofer is designed specifically for these lower frequencies and will produce them much better than most speakers and that the main issue is about the directivity at some frequency. I can't tell the direction of the sound under 80hz, so it is all about producing the best sound in the room, not about where it is coming from and the whole HRTF (Head-Related Transfer Functions) stuff. I have never read that a subwoofer could be overloaded with too many different types of sounds ("playing so much at once"). Is this an issue or not?

There is some truth to that when you set a speaker to small

all the stuff under the crossover point is sent to the sub on top of the lfe

signal that’s already being sent to the sub. So when you set all your speakers

to small and crossover at say 80 hz that can become a pretty hot signal to your

sub. To my ears subs sound there best when they only handle lfe content. Now one

way to offset that would be to crossover your sub at say 80 Hz (like youth). That

will lessen the load and signal on the sub. But the one main issue with that

though is that lfe content is 20-120hz

so you end up with a small hole in your lfe from 80-120. I personally run

everything on large mainly because to me the subs sound there best that way.

This has nothing to do with not wasting the other speakers capability’s like

the 7s low end, and everything to do with making the subs sound the best to my

ears. Youth is right there is no 1 right way to all this. So the best way is to

use the info and ideas and try all of them. When I only had an avr to power

everything i set everything too small to conserve on power. But when I got a

power amp, power and head room became a non-issue.