neo33 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 AND, I am, in fact, seriously considering buying a quad of these. So thank you for bringing this to my attention arrto, I am also considering the quad Empires along with the $3000 JTR Captivator S2 with dual 18" drivers, 4000 W RMS, DSP, class D amplifier in a sealed cabinet about the size of a Cornwall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themrclean Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think the performance of the Epik may have been accidentally misstated. The Data-Bass website shows 124dB output at 125Hz, not 24Hz (CEA-2010 Max Burst). Hi Artto, Databass shows 105.8dB @ 25Hz for the Epik Empire, but that's at 2 meters, ground plane (outdoors). Klipsch reports their maximum output at 1 meter, 1/8th space (corner loaded). In order to convert, you need to add 6dB for going from 2 meters to one meter, and an additional 12dB to go from 1/2 space to 1/8th space. As such. the Empire would output 123.8dB @ 25Hz, 1/8th space, 1 meter. Actually Klipsch rates all of their subwoofers by outdoor tests at 1 meter, not indoors corner loaded. With that being the case, you would have to drop that last 12dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Actually Klipsch rates all of their subwoofers by outdoor tests at 1 meter, not indoors corner loaded. With that being the case, you would have to drop that last 12dB. Incorrect. Straight from the SW-115 Spec page: http://www.klipsch.com/sw-115 MAX ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 121dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m Presumably the subwoofers are tested in 1/2 space (outdoors) to obtain a more repeatable result, but the rating itself is very clearly for 1/8th space (corner loaded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just as an addition: The eighth space rating does seem to be correct, even for subs where it isn't mentioned. Here is the max output per CEA2010 protocols of the SW-311 http://www.data-bass.com/images/measurements/51/L%20SW-311%20CEA2010%20CHART%20PASS.png At 32Hz, 2 meters, 1/2 space, it is measured to deliver 102.6dB, so at 1 meter 1/8th space, it should deliver 120.6dB. At 25Hz, 2 meters, 1/2 space, it is measured to deliver 97.9dB, so at 1 meter 1/8th space, it should deliver 115.9dB. Per it's spec (which doesn't state 1/2 space or 1/8th space), it has a maximum acoustic output of 118dB @ 30Hz. This appears like it would be bang on with what was measured if you translated it to 1 meter 1/8th space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Actually Klipsch rates all of their subwoofers by outdoor tests at 1 meter, not indoors corner loaded. With that being the case, you would have to drop that last 12dB. I'd like to see Klipsch official statement confirming this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themrclean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Actually Klipsch rates all of their subwoofers by outdoor tests at 1 meter, not indoors corner loaded. With that being the case, you would have to drop that last 12dB. I'd like to see Klipsch official statement confirming this. Here is a photo and statement from Amy Unger from a little over a year ago. http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/amy/archive/2010/04/27/measuring-subs.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here is a photo and statement from Amy Unger from a little over a year ago. http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/amy/archive/2010/04/27/measuring-subs.aspx Like I said, while they measure their subs outdoors for repeatability, maximum output of the SW-115 is clearly rated in 1/8th space (corner loaded). Of course, if the SW115 could output 121dB @ 30Hz 1m 1/2 space, that would be rather impressive. Even the mighty Danley DTS-10 only puts out 115.8dB @ 32Hz @ 2 meters 1/2 space, translating into 121.8dB @ 1m 1/2 space. http://www.data-bass.com/images/measurements/29/Q%20DTS10%20CEA2010%20THD%20CHART%20PASS.PNG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Here is an idea since no one on the forum owns one yet. Someone organize maybe a 3 sub shootout(all direct competitors) with the SW-115 included and once and for all this matter may be settled. First we have to purchase an SW-115. I have an idea for that. Lets all(as many members who want to participate) chip in $20 to $50(depending on how many take part) and go out and buy this SW-115. After the shootout is over, the $$$ donated will convert to raffle tickets and we will have a drawing to see who gets the SW-115. I don't know if something like this is allowed on the forum but it is worth a try. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Bill, I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utard Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 For a chance to win one for $20 I'm in. Just collect enough to cover the cost of the sub plus shipping/ins. (WA to FL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Here is an idea since no one on the forum owns one yet. Someone organize maybe a 3 sub shootout(all direct competitors) with the SW-115 included and once and for all this matter may be settled. I did not say Bill is organizing this thing, I just said "someone" should do it.[] You guys have been debating for weeks months on this issue so I just wanted to suggest a way for this thread to get back on track.[:#] I am happy with my sub choices so this debate does not really concern me, though I may throw in $20.00 at a chance to win a sub.[Y] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Here is a photo and statement from Amy Unger from a little over a year ago. http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/amy/archive/2010/04/27/measuring-subs.aspx Like I said, while they measure their subs outdoors for repeatability, maximum output of the SW-115 is clearly rated in 1/8th space (corner loaded). Of course, if the SW115 could output 121dB @ 30Hz 1m 1/2 space, that would be rather impressive. Even the mighty Danley DTS-10 only puts out 115.8dB @ 32Hz @ 2 meters 1/2 space, translating into 121.8dB @ 1m 1/2 space. http://www.data-bass.com/images/measurements/29/Q%20DTS10%20CEA2010%20THD%20CHART%20PASS.PNG Which means the SW-115 (Maximum Acoustic Ouput of 121dB @ 30Hz, 1/8 space, 1m) is no match for the Epic Empire (CEA2010 Rating 123.8db @25Hz, 1/8 space, 1m). The maximum passible CEA2010 SPL for the Epik Empire at the lowest possible frequency is 111.5dB @12.5Hz 1/8 space, 1m. Quite a bit more potent then the SW-115. Most subwoofer comparisons and shootouts simply don't include Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Which means the SW-115 (Maximum Acoustic Ouput of 121dB @ 30Hz, 1/8 space, 1m) is no match for the Epic Empire (CEA2010 Rating 123.8db @25Hz, 1/8 space, 1m). The maximum passible CEA2010 SPL for the Epik Empire at the lowest possible frequency is 111.5dB @12.5Hz 1/8 space, 1m. Quite a bit more potent then the SW-115. Most subwoofer comparisons and shootouts simply don't include Klipsch. Okay Thomas you have been elected.[] Most subwoofer comparisons and shootouts simply don't include Klipsch. This shootout will include Klipsch. When and where and how to send my raffle $$$?[] Thanks for the response to my PM, I just had to let the Paradigm go and hope Joseph will understand. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm in for $20 if willland will lose his sig. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm in for $20 if willland will lose his sig. Hey, my sig is shrinking(unfortunately) while others are growing.[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think the performance of the Epik may have been accidentally misstated. The Data-Bass website shows 124dB output at 125Hz, not 24Hz (CEA-2010 Max Burst). Hi Artto, Databass shows 105.8dB @ 25Hz for the Epik Empire, but that's at 2 meters, ground plane (outdoors). Klipsch reports their maximum output at 1 meter, 1/8th space (corner loaded). In order to convert, you need to add 6dB for going from 2 meters to one meter, and an additional 12dB to go from 1/2 space to 1/8th space. As such. the Empire would output 123.8dB @ 25Hz, 1/8th space, 1 meter. Actually Klipsch rates all of their subwoofers by outdoor tests at 1 meter, not indoors corner loaded. With that being the case, you would have to drop that last 12dB. http://www.klipsch.com/sw-115 http://www.klipsch.com/kw-120-thx-subwoofer http://www.klipsch.com/p-312w-subwoofer http://www.klipsch.com/product/65527.46299.0.0.0/1012449/_/KW-100_Subwoofer The Specs section of all of these, from the $320 KW-100 to the Palladium all reference maximum output @ HZ in 1/8 space corner placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 11, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2012 Want some real answers send Trey Cannon an email, he could answer any of these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The Specs section of all of these, from the $320 KW-100 to the Palladium all reference maximum output @ HZ in 1/8 space corner placement. I think the implication, here, might be that they measure outdoors and convert the results to what they would be @ 1m, 1/8 space. [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themrclean Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The Specs section of all of these, from the $320 KW-100 to the Palladium all reference maximum output @ HZ in 1/8 space corner placement. I think the implication, here, might be that they measure outdoors and convert the results to what they would be @ 1m, 1/8 space. Correctomondo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I bought one... we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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