Snoman Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Wow, it's so amazing how many people can have so many different opinions about the same tvs. When it comes right down to the only thing that really matters is that you like your tv no matter what it is. Having said that, you plasma lovers are crazy!! LMAO The only plasma that I have truly watched outside of the store for more than a few minutes is my brothers. He has last years top of the line 58" Samsung and had it professionally calibrated through BestBuy. I have spent hours watching his tv and after calibration his doesn't even look half as good as my 55" LG LED did right out of the box! The motion is so blurry I can hardly watch it and the colors are so dull it looks like a twenty year old tv. I honestly can't imagine how anyone can enjoy plasma after seeing an LED LCD tv with 120HZ or higher. And there lies the crux of it. Really this discussion, and any discussion about the merits of certain technologies, boils down to "reference" vs. "preference". "Good" is subjective, but "true" or "accurate" or "correct" is not. Objectively speaking, using the ISF calibration standards, there are a select few TVs that can actually achieve anything close to truly accurate reproduction (true 6500K colour temp, linear grayscale, minimum luminance levels, linear gamma curve, etc.). And all but one ( maybe two depending on your bias) of them are plasmas. The only TVs commercially available right now that can actually hit reference colour reproduction are the 9G Pioneer Kuro, and the Samsung D7000 and D8000 plasmas. And Samsung plasmas (and LCDs for that matter) historically have some of the best colour accuracy in the industry, so there is no way that your brother's television should be inferior to yours in terms of colour. Bottom line is that most people don't look for reference. They look for preference, and what they are used to. And there is nothing wrong with that. There is no TV that I can take out of the box and be completely happy with how it looks. The Vivid setting and dynamic contrast look terrible, and frame interpolation (aka 120/240 hz) gives me a headache because of all the image smearing and soap-opera effect. I also cannot stand flashlighting, blooming, clouding, and the poor viewing angles and near-black colour shift that all LCD/"LED" TVs have to varying degrees. But I also have a light controlled room with many seating positions that ruthlessly exposes all of these flaws...One possible reason the set looks so dull to you is that you are simply used to watching a TV that is WAY brighter than reference. And most plasmas do not look very good in a showroom because of how their lower perceived brightness affects the physical function of the eye when viewing a wall of TV's. It's also the reason why people seem to think that the movie settings on TV's look too red. It's because they're used to the too-blue-ness of vivid. And vise-versa with me, where everything looks way to blue in vivid because I'm used to watching reference 6500K colour temperature (vivid is often closer to 8000K)....Another reason may be that whoever calibrated your brother's set didn't account for ambient light and set the backlight too low. Rookie calibrators often forget that the true reference specification calls for a perfectly dark room, and don't compensate for a brighter environment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHASLS2 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 My Kuro puts out heat. You can really feel it within a foot of the screen. In the summer i have a hard time to get my bedroom at 80 degrees with the computer, Kuro and AVR running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwilbur Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I just bought a Samsung 46" LED and I am really disappointed with it. For anything other than high def, it sucks. For high def, it is good but not great. Try to buy from a place that allows for returns without a hefty restock fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Wow, it's so amazing how many people can have so many different opinions about the same tvs. When it comes right down to the only thing that really matters is that you like your tv no matter what it is. Having said that, you plasma lovers are crazy!! LMAO The only plasma that I have truly watched outside of the store for more than a few minutes is my brothers. He has last years top of the line 58" Samsung and had it professionally calibrated through BestBuy. I have spent hours watching his tv and after calibration his doesn't even look half as good as my 55" LG LED did right out of the box! The motion is so blurry I can hardly watch it and the colors are so dull it looks like a twenty year old tv. I honestly can't imagine how anyone can enjoy plasma after seeing an LED LCD tv with 120HZ or higher. And there lies the crux of it. Really this discussion, and any discussion about the merits of certain technologies, boils down to "reference" vs. "preference". "Good" is subjective, but "true" or "accurate" or "correct" is not. Objectively speaking, using the ISF calibration standards, there are a select few TVs that can actually achieve anything close to truly accurate reproduction (true 6500K colour temp, linear grayscale, minimum luminance levels, linear gamma curve, etc.). And all but one ( maybe two depending on your bias) of them are plasmas. The only TVs commercially available right now that can actually hit reference colour reproduction are the 9G Pioneer Kuro, and the Samsung D7000 and D8000 plasmas. And Samsung plasmas (and LCDs for that matter) historically have some of the best colour accuracy in the industry, so there is no way that your brother's television should be inferior to yours in terms of colour. Bottom line is that most people don't look for reference. They look for preference, and what they are used to. And there is nothing wrong with that. There is no TV that I can take out of the box and be completely happy with how it looks. The Vivid setting and dynamic contrast look terrible, and frame interpolation (aka 120/240 hz) gives me a headache because of all the image smearing and soap-opera effect. I also cannot stand flashlighting, blooming, clouding, and the poor viewing angles and near-black colour shift that all LCD/"LED" TVs have to varying degrees. But I also have a light controlled room with many seating positions that ruthlessly exposes all of these flaws...One possible reason the set looks so dull to you is that you are simply used to watching a TV that is WAY brighter than reference. And most plasmas do not look very good in a showroom because of how their lower perceived brightness affects the physical function of the eye when viewing a wall of TV's. It's also the reason why people seem to think that the movie settings on TV's look too red. It's because they're used to the too-blue-ness of vivid. And vise-versa with me, where everything looks way to blue in vivid because I'm used to watching reference 6500K colour temperature (vivid is often closer to 8000K)....Another reason may be that whoever calibrated your brother's set didn't account for ambient light and set the backlight too low. Rookie calibrators often forget that the true reference specification calls for a perfectly dark room, and don't compensate for a brighter environment... "Reference" is very difficult to achieve, and expensive. Add to that any room that isn't ideal for the display and you have even more difficulty in achieving "reference". What I have found researching these machines is that there isn't a huge market for "reference", it's all about 85-90% performance levels....at least that seems to be what manufacturers are catering to. No real surprise when one considers the economic malaise the world has been in the last few years....it seems manufacturers aren't trying for "top priced" sets, they are targeting the middle price points and less focus on the high end. Note the rarity of full line array with local dimming amongst newer LED offerings, for example. With limited exception, these manufacturers aren't really trying that hard to get perfection, it's a given level of performance at a certain price. It is very much "pick your preferences and flaws you can live with", unless you can 100% control the room and plan to spend the $$$ on the "near perfect" stuff. (Sharp Elite, Top end Samsung, Top end Panny, Sony XBR) Oh, and I'm not looking for any 55" OLED to be showing up for prices affordable by mortals anytime soon. When and if that technology can be scaled up, it would be a game changer, but particularly in the current world economy don't be so sure of it's dominance of large screen living rooms just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I just bought a Samsung 46" LED and I am really disappointed with it. For anything other than high def, it sucks. For high def, it is good but not great. Try to buy from a place that allows for returns without a hefty restock fee. GREAT advice. Buying with ability to return or swap for another is pretty much a requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgalante Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 kde, you have gotten a lot of great information. As someone who just took the plunge a couple months ago, I can say that the Sony XBR I bought was the best investment I have made in 25 years. Of course, it was 25 years ago that I purchased my last Sony XBR-KV25. I got one heck of a deal on the previous model XBR-46HX909. It isn't quite as thin as the new XBR-46HX929, but will do in a pinch. I have to admit, only paying $1099 for it really helped me make my decision (instead of the $2499 it originally retailed for). I have to say, that if my main objective was to watch 3D, nothing I have ever seen, compares to the Plasma sets I saw at the local Magnolia center at BestBuy. I have heard nothing but great things about the Kuro displays, but don't ever think I have seen one in person, that I know of. The LED does make a big difference in the picture quality, as does the local dimming that the Sony XBR models have. I'm not a big fan of Samsung LED televisions, only due to their inherent glare from the screen in a room with windows. As for picture clarity, the Samsungs, in a dark room are probably superior to the Sony's, but I prefer a little less glare on my screen. I was almost swayed into going with one of the better Panasonic Plasmas that I saw at BestBuy, but, when I started doing my homework on my next purchase, I still read numerous articles warning of possible burn-in with the plasma tv's. They all said the problem was getting better, and that manufacturers had built special circuitry into the plasma tv's to combat it, but it was still a problem last year when I began my search. I knew my old XBR was biting the dust after 24+ years in service. Of course, that TV was about $1000 back in 1986 when I bought it. I am sure I haven't really said anything to add to the party, except you get what you pay for. If it wasn't for 3D, if I can get my hands on an older Sony XBR8, I would buy one. That was probably the best TV ever made. It was just too expensive to produce back in 2009. It had a TRILUMINOS® RGB LED backlight display, unlike the ultrathin televisions today. Talking to Sony reps recently, they admit that is was better than anything produced currently (at least by them). Hope that helps. SteveG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Is 3D even gonna make it? I read last week the movie studios weren't supporting it. Visiting a retailer recently I noticed that among 20 tv offerings only one set was 3D. I'm starting to wonder if 3D will even survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Is 3D even gonna make it? I read last week the movie studios weren't supporting it. Visiting a retailer recently I noticed that among 20 tv offerings only one set was 3D. I'm starting to wonder if 3D will even survive? i certainly hope not ..it's a silly fad that adds very little to the cinematic experience. the hassle and discomfort far outweigh any gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Is 3D even gonna make it? I read last week the movie studios weren't supporting it. Visiting a retailer recently I noticed that among 20 tv offerings only one set was 3D. I'm starting to wonder if 3D will even survive? i certainly hope not ..it's a silly fad that adds very little to the cinematic experience. the hassle and discomfort far outweigh any gains. I completely agree. I wish TV makers would kill off the silly 3D fad. I want nothing to do with 3D, just give me quality HD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Is 3D even gonna make it? I read last week the movie studios weren't supporting it. Visiting a retailer recently I noticed that among 20 tv offerings only one set was 3D. I'm starting to wonder if 3D will even survive? I doubt it. Must be a new blind CEO thing. I mean, it was a novelty in the late 1800's, it stumbled in the 50's, never matured into a big selling point for IMAX, flopped several times in the video gaming market. The cycle just keeps repeating. Anyone remember all that hot air in the 80's about how virtual-reality was going to cause a paradigm shift in the entertainment industry? [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHASLS2 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I don't care about 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgalante Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm not necessarily the biggest 3D fan, but, if 3D is going away, you can't tell it by what the manufacturers are doing. As an example, out of the 21 models that Sony offers 40" or larger, 17 of them are 3D capable. I am sure the numbers are similar for Samsung and a few others. Considering that you can get a 40" LED 3D television from Sony for less than $1000, I would think the manufacturers think they are here to stay. The active shutter glasses are getting less expensive to produce, I bought 4 pairs and a 3D movie for < $35/pair . The large movie theater near me is currently showing 13 movies, 5 of which are being shown in 3D. So, although I am sure you read what you say you read, right now the numbers don't match the facts of what I am seeing at least. I was at a BestBuy store tonight listening to a Klipcsh Subwoofer, and they had 6 3D televisions set up with a variety of 3D movies, ESPN-3D and a few other programs going as you walked into the television section *Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, and 2 other manufacturers), with the appropriate glasses there for your watching enjoyment. Also, they had a few of the higher end Panasonic Plasma televisions set up in their Magnolia Center to watch 3D also. When I made mention of the Sony XBR8 previously, if that television was available for anywhere near the price I paid for my new XBR, I would have bought it in a minute. I would have given up 3D capability for the best picture I have ever seen. Is 3D a fad, maybe, but it is available in more LED and Plasma televisions, than those without its capability. My TV supports it, so I spent < $150 to get 4 sets of glasses and a movie to watch it while I can. A small price to pay for something neat in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 My Panasonic 50" Plasma beats my Sony 46" LED hands down. Pioneer made the best Plasma TV (a 20-year old technology which is way more mature then LED) but unfortunately they quit the business and all of their best engineers went to Panasonic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 well I use to love my 58" samsung plasma upstairs until yesterday when a 2 year old was capable of smacking a dvd case against the screen and cracking the inside one....ugh any recommendations on specific plasma sets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHASLS2 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 The Panasonic vt30 or the higher up Sammy plasma's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydrama Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Agreed sammy or panny mid to upper level plasmas are all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 im thinking 65 and moving this one up, the s2 panny has a terrible glare, does the same hold true for there new lineup? im thinking vts are to rich for my blood but maybe st or gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHASLS2 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I am about to pull the trigger on a new Panasonic 65VT30 to replace my 50" G9 Kuro. Already have a buyer lined up for the Kuro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I am about to pull the trigger on a new Panasonic 65VT30 to replace my 50" G9 Kuro. Already have a buyer lined up for the Kuro. Be sure to report back with your opinion on the Panny vs Pioneer in the PQ department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well, after all this back and forth regarding this, I'm also anxious to get a report on the result. Please let us know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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