kg4guy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I keep hearing that I should replace the K-401 in my La scala's with a different horn can anyone who has had both the K-401 and one of the horn upgrades elaborate on the difference in sound? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Wood horns sound better than plastic or metal horns. Wider pattern horns sound more open and transparent than long throw horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks wondering how much better in PA application? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't think the cost would be justified in a PA application. For home hifi sound, it's still a subjective call if the difference justifies the cost, which is a bit pricey, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thank you very much I have been on the fence about this for some time I'm waiting for a pair of ALK ES networks for my La scalas just the ES 5800's I need to get the AP12's to complete the network or the ES low mid but they are alot $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I've listened to the wooden mods, 400's and 401's. Me? For the money (and I generally don't listen at higher SPL's), the 401's do just fine. Depends on your ears, checkbook (LOL!!!), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't think the material matters as much as shape and the horn is rigid. Plastic metal concrete or wood sound the same if they are rigid enough. For instance if you screw down a bell it does not ring... You can ask Trey what happened when he asked PWK about it...... "Simple. A horn is just a reasonably rigid boundary for an air column. Now all you have to do is figure what shape to make it." PWK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 For the cost of the ES5800s you could probably get a pair of the Fast Lanes bolt in tractrix replacements and keep the same drivers. From the listening tests we've done, these homemade wooden tractrix horns really offer a major improvement. In fact after comparing a few of those with different drivers, the only thing we found that sounded better was the K402 which is much bigger. The wooden tractrix were excellent. I just heard a newly built pair at Cigarbum's a couple of weeks ago and they were incredible on his Khorn bins. If you are using the Las for PA I agree with the ESNs. They will remove the smear at the higher volumes and offer better clarity. The horns may not be necessary for your application but there is no doubt they make a BIG difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thank you for the confirmation if I was going to use these in my house I would think more about the tractrix horns or another larger horn I want to get a pair of the K402's to replace the JBL 2360A horns on my large system.[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 to replace the JBL 2360A horns on my large system. How have the JBLs been on your system? I have some 2365As that I got from JWC, but haven't sprung for any 2 inch drivers yet.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well I really don't have anything as big as these to compare them to but with the 4 single MWM 's the Peavey MB-2 they seem to be a great match I'm using EV DH1A drivers with them crossed at 1100Hz I'm running the MB-2 from 350Hz-1100Hz and below that the MWM's. I still can't believe how these sound I can't wait to get them into a very large room or outside as I have them in my garage as my house is not big enough .I got these Ev drivers for $200. pair in mint condition they are much less than the JBL 2445J's and not sure how much better the JBL's sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Do you know if your EV drivers have the Aluminum diaphragms or the newer Titanium replacement diaphragms. I am considering Ti diaphragmsfor my CF3 drivers. sounds like you have a stunning set up. You need to buy an old thrater and turn it into a stereo pool room with a bar. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just picked up a pair of K402's......slightly damaged, as they are 13 years old, but repairable. Also got a pair of Klipsch K1133 drivers for them (one of the few drivers they make themselves at the factory). Those measure down to 300 Hz. in that horn so they can easily cross at 400 for home, maybe 500 for pro use (safety first). I measured the K402 with the K1133, JBL2446J, and EV-DH1A drivers. The 1133's go a bit lower than the others, but not as high up. The DH1A measured similar to the JBL and both could be used in a 2 way with the typical HF shelving of +12 db at 12 Khz., since they all roll off at about 4Khz in a Constant Directivity horn, which of course, the K402 and JBL260A are. I heard Rigma's fantastic Jubilee Home Theater/2 channel setup with the TAD 4002's in the K402, but $2,500 for a pair of Berillium Diaphragm drivers is too rich for my blood. I guarantee you will never need super tweeters with those. In my case, I'm looking to do a 3-way, now that I have K402's I still like the broader dispersion of seperate tweeters as ALL CD horns still beam slighly above 8 Kh.z The JBL 236a0 is pretty amazing in this regard. Maybe those elephant butt cheeks on the horn do make the spray wider and higher freq than the 402, I'm not sure, but a super tweet works around the issue quite nicely. 3-way with very little prametric EQ, no shelving and time delay/active digital Xover, or 2 Way with prametric EQ, time delay, and shelving.............all good and a personal choice. All better than stock Khorns for the DIY dudes and dudettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Congratulations on your K402 find. Wish I had the room for a pair of those monsters but that's not the case. Could you rlaborate a little more regarding the dispersion beaming above 8KHz? Don't know if you are interested in playing but I have had sucess with inserting some diffraction inito the mouth of the horn about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the way in. I have never played with a horn the size of a K402 but I would imagine you would need a sphere about 3 inches perhaps more in diametre. Position it in the centre of the horn and play with the front to back position. Something to consider perhaps. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I keep hearing that I should replace the K-401 in my La scala's with a different horn can anyone who has had both the K-401 and one of the horn upgrades elaborate on the difference in sound? Thanks Within the Klipsch lineup the K510 might be the best option. (none of these are inexpensive) It's a 100% Klipsch engineered solution. It's not a drop in replacement. Pat simply put his on top of his LaScalas. I've got a single beater box that I'm looking to mess around with and add another layer of 3/4" on the outside and maybe do same to the front motorboard. This would give a clean surface to route out a hole to slide the K510 and have it internal. I need to hang out with Claude....maybe I'll find someone with a K510 without driver in their trash can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Reading this thread prompts a question. K510 and wood horns, has anyone tried to make a wooden K510? are there any drawings available. i might try my hand at a DIY 510 horn out of wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 sounds like a question Dave can answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The diffence in sound is open and detailed vs. constricted. 402, vs. 401. The 2" driver in a 402 offers roughly 10X the throat area of the K55/K401. It's this combination that makes the bigger horn sound so much better. Although the K55 is amazingly good for it's size, but no contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Well I really don't have anything as big as these to compare them to but with the 4 single MWM 's the Peavey MB-2 they seem to be a great match I'm using EV DH1A drivers with them crossed at 1100Hz I'm running the MB-2 from 350Hz-1100Hz and below that the MWM's. I still can't believe how these sound I can't wait to get them into a very large room or outside as I have them in my garage as my house is not big enough .I got these Ev drivers for $200. pair in mint condition they are much less than the JBL 2445J's and not sure how much better the JBL's sound. If you think the MB-2's sound good you should hear the MB-1's. They are very comfortable on top of MWM bins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The diffence in sound is open and detailed vs. constricted. 402, vs. 401. The 2" driver in a 402 offers roughly 10X the throat area of the K55/K401. It's this combination that makes the bigger horn sound so much better. Although the K55 is amazingly good for it's size, but no contest. So are you saying that the larger radiating area results in lower distotion? Is this not a cace of reduced compression? Would moving to a conical horn with a smaller format driver achieve similar results? The conical horn would result in lower compression so lower distortion. I mean how loud does it have to bein a home setting even a large one? I would want to think that a 1.75 - 2.0 inch driver with a one inch exit should get the job done with less EQ tha the bigger format drivers. What do you think? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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