A new chapter shall begin with K402's

[ClaudeJ1]

Having been too pocket poor to get new ones, I just got some used K402's from Rigma with 1133 drivers. They need a bit of fixin' with some epoxy, but I will make them be as close to new as possible. Probably upgrade my double tweeter drivers from B&C DE-10 to single DE250's in the same ME-10 horn lens, which everyone raves about (Danley and Geddes). Those drivers put out about an extra 1.5 db, and I can make up for the slight effective loss of the 2n'd tweeter when I tri-amp with digital Xover. I also can't wait to add time delay and horn mouth alignment to the setup. MikeBSE has been pretty convincing in his arguments. I measured one 1133 down to 300 Hz, while the other didn't fare so well. I'll be replacing a diaphragm and maybe tightening up a phase plug. These will be crossed at 400 Hz/4Khz.. with a Behringer 2496 and driven with Tripath 2020 chip amps. Gone will be the JBL2446J's with the "elephant butt cheek" horns. Those horns have been the best sounding horns I have ever tried, but I'm excited to have the 402's in their place. Whoever buys them from me will get the closest perfomrnance possible to a $2000 pair of K402's with K69 drivers, provided they use active Xovers and BiAmp.

Also, since I have now FH-1 bins with K-33's I'm sure I can easily EQ them up a bit at 400 and down a bit at 150Hz to flatten them out. I'm also going to get rid of the fantastic MB-1 horns(which was the single best thing I ever did for the sound of my stack with first order networks), which will make this a 3-way active vs. a 4-way passive, like I have now (actually the woofer bin has active rolloff in the amp, but everything else if passive. Anyone with a single or double MWMs bass bin needs this MKB-1 for the midbass, then they can cross over to an much smaller horn at 800-1,000 Hz. All the way to 20Khz.

I have been trying to downsize from my old MWM bins, and the Tapped Horn Coffee Table Sub I built has shifted my entire paradigm to smaller, better, simpler stack, but with 7 amplifiers and active digital balancing networks. Trey told me that a Jube bin behaves the same as a LaScala when not in a corner (measured in 1/2 space outdoors).........so this will be a sort of a Jube Scala type setup as a 3-way.......probably unique among the purists here and will be the closest thing to JWC's setup, I hope. I don't need a K510/K69 super tweeter setup, as I'm not trying to blast through a theater screen, which that would be way overkill for home, unless you are JWC of course and scored a Grand T top end. Can't wait to see how many 684 bins he ends up with in his setup, but is another story for another time.

 BTW, the reason I will be using 2020 and 2024 chip amps on those horns is that after hearing what 8 watts of Single Ended tubes can do at Rigma's Jubilees, I don't think I need more that 6 W on super tweeter above 4K, 20 W on the 1133/K402, and 100 W on the "cheap LaScala" with K33's. Using the 200 W on the coffee table sub.

 After talking to JWC, and spending time on the high efficiency speaker asylum, I'm convinced that straight axis horns are best, and the practical limit of 3-4 feet from corners make 70-90 hz. practical, then to multiple Tapped horn subs, like the Danley Spuds. With only one fold, the FH-1 bins are a practical compromise from straight axis, while I figure out my next move. If I ever finish my LAB 3.0 horns, I will need put another midbass horn in, but want them to be smaller....maybe an 8 or 10 driver instead of a 12.

I curved the good 1133, JBL2446J, and EV DH1A drivers on the 402. I'm doing to try a 3-way before I try a heavily EQ'd 2-way, which I have done before with DH1A and EV960 horns. The DH1A curves a tiny bit better than the JBL2446 on all the horns, including the 402 (surprising, I know). Roy tested one of my DH1A's on an EV CD horn in the chamber in Indy a few years ago. He told me the DH1A is "a very good driver." On the other hand, I have a beat up JBL 2380 flat front horn that curves better than the EV960 with either the JBL or EV driver.......nice to have choices, eh?

My measurements have confirmed this. Even though I really like the JBL2446J, the main reason I got a pair was they were designed for the 2360A horns, which were the best of all the horns I went though.......too many to mention. Also, I needed the 16 ohm impedance to level match to the Peavey MB-1's, using the simplest 1 st order network possible (single cap, with natural mass rolloff in the JBL's). JWC also likes the JBL 2446J's and the 2360a Horns.

I may eventually end up with a 2-way, since I will be using a Behringer Digital Xover with steep slopes (it's time to make the move), time delays, and PEQ's. I have been very happy with my setup the way it is now, but I want to simplify and downsize the "stack" with no quality penalty, just to bring it all down closer to ear level. I went from a 7-foot stack to a 6-foot stack, so now it's time for a 5-footer. At my sweet spot, my system now curves from 15 Hz. To 18 Khz. plus/minus 4 db, which is really good in a real small room.

Both the JBL and DH1a's are better drivers for PEQ's and shelved 2-ways because they will go easily cross from 500 Hz. and tgo up to 18 Khz.

The 1133's, when working right, according to a recent phone call to Roy, should go down to 300 Hz. in the 402, but they start rolling off at 4K. Both the JBL and the EV drivers go up higher, but not as low. The 545 theater 3-way Jubilee uses the 1133 mid drivers and crosses at 400 Hz. which is what I want to do with my cheapScalas (FH-1) bottoms crossing up to the 402's. I will be counting on the FH1 (cheapScalas) with K33 for midbass duty as well as lower midrange. If the K33's are too weak at 400 hz., I will upgrade to K43's which are much better in the lower midrange but worse at 100 hz. than the K33's which are better at the lower end about. 80 Hz. So I will try to balance out the "motors" as naturally as possible BEFORE I mess with PEQ's. My system curve now is the best I have ever had, with the help of Audyssey on my receiver, which I further modify woofer gains AFTER it does it's thing (too much bass). I'm plus or minus 4 db at my sweet spot from 15 Hz. to 18 Khz. right now. I will not sacrifice that part of it, but I think a shorter stack will give me better imaging and depth.

Who knows, I may end up with a heavily EQ'd 2-way with K43's, but if I do, it will be with the EV DH1a's, not the JBL's since I want the 6 ohm impedance to pull a few more "crest factor" watts out of the little chip amps, which sound more like tubes than solid state to me........on the cheap. Also, it's easier for me to sell off the big JBL 2360a's with JBL drivers than anything else out there.

Then, also, there's the Faital Pro drivers that Bob Crites sells that look interesting to me at an affordable price, but that is beyond the scope of this text. I'm also looking at a pair of used Heil Air Motion Transformers for less than $300. I could then build a conical horn around them and maybe get the efficiency higher than 98 db/watt, but with discrete amps, that may not be a problem. Crazy, I know.

I'm going 3-way because according to Geddes, the 1" DE250 driver from B&C at  only $130 has sound characteristics equal to the expensive TAD Berrilium drivers, which are too rich for my blood. So I will try this solution first since they bolt righ on to my ME-10 horns.

Like all of you, I want my cake and eat it too, and it's fun to design and stack your own stuff in the quest for the sonic holy grail.

I will be selling off my JBL's as soon as I can make a new stack (when the epoxy is sset on the broken 402's and I have a good 2nd driver to go with. Meanwhile I just ordered a DE250 from parts express to see if Geddes and Danley's choice is right for my setup.......I highly suspect that it will be.

So I'm going from 5 horns (in my Avatar) down to 3. No more double tweeters, since I will have discrete amplifiers for each horn with NO passives in between. So even if my RCA plugs have a momentary ground disconnect, ahead of the mid or tweeter amps, causing the dreaded "squeal of death" in the compression drivers, they can all handle that power without opening up the voice coils.

I'm not a fan of large voltage swing amplifiers on tweeters, same as PWK was. In fact, I'd would Ideally like system design to be useable on a marine battery which is about 13.8 vols. If I ever go green with solar panels, I can run my setup with sun power, eh?

By using more sensitive drivers that handle more power in their respective bands, and limiting that power at the source, I can prevent damage from ever occuring........built in headroom without a large capacitor in series.

So having modern Tripath amps on the mid and treble sections will give me "tube like" performance, while leaving the conventional Solid State 100 watt amps only on the woofer section, where it belongs.

[ClaudeJ1]

Does the mega-long post denote any kind of excitement on my part??? LOL.

[mark1101]

So Claude, do you have Roy's EQ setup for the EV DX-38 for the 402s? I see you are using a Behringer processor but you can still benefit from the settings to make some close approximations for your 2496DCX.

[ClaudeJ1]

Just got the second driver working right.......epoxy still drying on horns. Not sure if Roy's settings would help me.....different driver (1133 vs K69), 3 way instead of 2 way, different bass bin, different processor, but I will have a look as a point of departure for sure. More than likely I will just run frequency sweeps to flatten it out for my sweet spot and let Audyssey take care of room anomalies. But, we shall see.

[kg4guy]

Pictures please.[]

[garyeanderson]

Claude

Do your FH-1 bass bins still have the full width motorboard slot opening? I was not that impressed with my ported FH-1 cabs with the round magnet K33 installed. If I get another pair of K33 (or Crites cast frame 1526) I will make up a 1/2 inch mounting board with a 3 x 13 inch slot to sandwich between the woofer and the current 5 1/8 inch opening in the cab. I have the stock Peavey woofers back in them now as part of my garage system so not much critical listening .

[wuzzzer]

Having been too pocket poor to get new ones, I just got some used K402's from Rigma with 1133 drivers. They need a bit of fixin' with some epoxy, but I will make them be as close to new as possible. Probably upgrade my double tweeter drivers from B&C DE-10 to single DE250's in the same ME-10 horn lens, which everyone raves about (Danley and Geddes). Those drivers put out about an extra 1.5 db, and I can make up for the slight effective loss of the 2n'd tweeter when I tri-amp with digital Xover. I also can't wait to add time delay and horn mouth alignment to the setup. MikeBSE has been pretty convincing in his arguments. I measured one 1133 down to 300 Hz, while the other didn't fare so well. I'll be replacing a diaphragm and maybe tightening up a phase plug. These will be crossed at 400 Hz/4Khz.. with a Behringer 2496 and driven with Tripath 2020 chip amps. Gone will be the JBL2446J's with the "elephant butt cheek" horns. Those horns have been the best sounding horns I have ever tried, but I'm excited to have the 402's in their place. Whoever buys them from me will get the closest perfomrnance possible to a $2000 pair of K402's with K69 drivers, provided they use active Xovers and BiAmp.

Also, since I have now FH-1 bins with K-33's I'm sure I can easily EQ them up a bit at 400 and down a bit at 150Hz to flatten them out. I'm also going to get rid of the fantastic MB-1 horns(which was the single best thing I ever did for the sound of my stack with first order networks), which will make this a 3-way active vs. a 4-way passive, like I have now (actually the woofer bin has active rolloff in the amp, but everything else if passive. Anyone with a single or double MWMs bass bin needs this MKB-1 for the midbass, then they can cross over to an much smaller horn at 800-1,000 Hz. All the way to 20Khz.

I have been trying to downsize from my old MWM bins, and the Tapped Horn Coffee Table Sub I built has shifted my entire paradigm to smaller, better, simpler stack, but with 7 amplifiers and active digital balancing networks. Trey told me that a Jube bin behaves the same as a LaScala when not in a corner (measured in 1/2 space outdoors).........so this will be a sort of a Jube Scala type setup as a 3-way.......probably unique among the purists here and will be the closest thing to JWC's setup, I hope. I don't need a K510/K69 super tweeter setup, as I'm not trying to blast through a theater screen, which that would be way overkill for home, unless you are JWC of course and scored a Grand T top end. Can't wait to see how many 684 bins he ends up with in his setup, but is another story for another time.

BTW, the reason I will be using 2020 and 2024 chip amps on those horns is that after hearing what 8 watts of Single Ended tubes can do at Rigma's Jubilees, I don't think I need more that 6 W on super tweeter above 4K, 20 W on the 1133/K402, and 100 W on the "cheap LaScala" with K33's. Using the 200 W on the coffee table sub.

After talking to JWC, and spending time on the high efficiency speaker asylum, I'm convinced that straight axis horns are best, and the practical limit of 3-4 feet from corners make 70-90 hz. practical, then to multiple Tapped horn subs, like the Danley Spuds. With only one fold, the FH-1 bins are a practical compromise from straight axis, while I figure out my next move. If I ever finish my LAB 3.0 horns, I will need put another midbass horn in, but want them to be smaller....maybe an 8 or 10 driver instead of a 12.

I curved the good 1133, JBL2446J, and EV DH1A drivers on the 402. I'm doing to try a 3-way before I try a heavily EQ'd 2-way, which I have done before with DH1A and EV960 horns. The DH1A curves a tiny bit better than the JBL2446 on all the horns, including the 402 (surprising, I know). Roy tested one of my DH1A's on an EV CD horn in the chamber in Indy a few years ago. He told me the DH1A is "a very good driver." On the other hand, I have a beat up JBL 2380 flat front horn that curves better than the EV960 with either the JBL or EV driver.......nice to have choices, eh?

My measurements have confirmed this. Even though I really like the JBL2446J, the main reason I got a pair was they were designed for the 2360A horns, which were the best of all the horns I went though.......too many to mention. Also, I needed the 16 ohm impedance to level match to the Peavey MB-1's, using the simplest 1 st order network possible (single cap, with natural mass rolloff in the JBL's). JWC also likes the JBL 2446J's and the 2360a Horns.

I may eventually end up with a 2-way, since I will be using a Behringer Digital Xover with steep slopes (it's time to make the move), time delays, and PEQ's. I have been very happy with my setup the way it is now, but I want to simplify and downsize the "stack" with no quality penalty, just to bring it all down closer to ear level. I went from a 7-foot stack to a 6-foot stack, so now it's time for a 5-footer. At my sweet spot, my system now curves from 15 Hz. To 18 Khz. plus/minus 4 db, which is really good in a real small room.

Both the JBL and DH1a's are better drivers for PEQ's and shelved 2-ways because they will go easily cross from 500 Hz. and tgo up to 18 Khz.

The 1133's, when working right, according to a recent phone call to Roy, should go down to 300 Hz. in the 402, but they start rolling off at 4K. Both the JBL and the EV drivers go up higher, but not as low. The 545 theater 3-way Jubilee uses the 1133 mid drivers and crosses at 400 Hz. which is what I want to do with my cheapScalas (FH-1) bottoms crossing up to the 402's. I will be counting on the FH1 (cheapScalas) with K33 for midbass duty as well as lower midrange. If the K33's are too weak at 400 hz., I will upgrade to K43's which are much better in the lower midrange but worse at 100 hz. than the K33's which are better at the lower end about. 80 Hz. So I will try to balance out the "motors" as naturally as possible BEFORE I mess with PEQ's. My system curve now is the best I have ever had, with the help of Audyssey on my receiver, which I further modify woofer gains AFTER it does it's thing (too much bass). I'm plus or minus 4 db at my sweet spot from 15 Hz. to 18 Khz. right now. I will not sacrifice that part of it, but I think a shorter stack will give me better imaging and depth.

Who knows, I may end up with a heavily EQ'd 2-way with K43's, but if I do, it will be with the EV DH1a's, not the JBL's since I want the 6 ohm impedance to pull a few more "crest factor" watts out of the little chip amps, which sound more like tubes than solid state to me........on the cheap. Also, it's easier for me to sell off the big JBL 2360a's with JBL drivers than anything else out there.

Then, also, there's the Faital Pro drivers that Bob Crites sells that look interesting to me at an affordable price, but that is beyond the scope of this text. I'm also looking at a pair of used Heil Air Motion Transformers for less than $300. I could then build a conical horn around them and maybe get the efficiency higher than 98 db/watt, but with discrete amps, that may not be a problem. Crazy, I know.

I'm going 3-way because according to Geddes, the 1" DE250 driver from B&C at only $130 has sound characteristics equal to the expensive TAD Berrilium drivers, which are too rich for my blood. So I will try this solution first since they bolt righ on to my ME-10 horns.

Like all of you, I want my cake and eat it too, and it's fun to design and stack your own stuff in the quest for the sonic holy grail.

I will be selling off my JBL's as soon as I can make a new stack (when the epoxy is sset on the broken 402's and I have a good 2nd driver to go with. Meanwhile I just ordered a DE250 from parts express to see if Geddes and Danley's choice is right for my setup.......I highly suspect that it will be.

So I'm going from 5 horns (in my Avatar) down to 3. No more double tweeters, since I will have discrete amplifiers for each horn with NO passives in between. So even if my RCA plugs have a momentary ground disconnect, ahead of the mid or tweeter amps, causing the dreaded "squeal of death" in the compression drivers, they can all handle that power without opening up the voice coils.

I'm not a fan of large voltage swing amplifiers on tweeters, same as PWK was. In fact, I'd would Ideally like system design to be useable on a marine battery which is about 13.8 vols. If I ever go green with solar panels, I can run my setup with sun power, eh?

By using more sensitive drivers that handle more power in their respective bands, and limiting that power at the source, I can prevent damage from ever occuring........built in headroom without a large capacitor in series.

So having modern Tripath amps on the mid and treble sections will give me "tube like" performance, while leaving the conventional Solid State 100 watt amps only on the woofer section, where it belongs.

[Tom Mobley]

Maybe he's using the Chrome browser. The Klipsch forum doesn't like a W3 standards-compliant browser at all. I don't even get the text formatting buttons across the top when using Chrome. No matter what I put in it appears as one long paragraph like this.

[ClaudeJ1]

Maybe he's using the Chrome browser. The Klipsch forum doesn't like a W3 standards-compliant browser at all. I don't even get the text formatting buttons across the top when using Chrome. No matter what I put in it appears as one long paragraph like this.

Using chrome browser and lost all of my original paragraphs.

[Marvel]

Claude,

Edit your original post. Put in a less than character, p, and a greater than character. This will insert a paragraph break.

Bruce

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude

Do your FH-1 bass bins still have the full width motorboard slot opening? I was not that impressed with my ported FH-1 cabs with the round magnet K33 installed. If I get another pair of K33 (or Crites cast frame 1526) I will make up a 1/2 inch mounting board with a 3 x 13 inch slot to sandwich between the woofer and the current 5 1/8 inch opening in the cab. I have the stock Peavey woofers back in them now as part of my garage system so not much critical listening .

Probably, I never measured the throat. With the Behringer, but in my old basement home office, I got those bins to 30 Hz, which at that point were, effectively, direct radiators in a very tight "corner." . With PEQ and got a great 2-way with the EV DH1a's and the 960 horns. That is why I'm encouraged to do it again, as have the bins going to 50 Hz. now by simple squelching the ever present 160 Hz horn peak in the FH1 (my LaScalas did the same thing). Only this time, it's 3-way with the best midrange horn Klipsch has ever made (hats off to Roy Delgado).

PEQ's clean up the short bass horn really nice, but I do remember the upper end was WAY more defined with a K43 vs. a K33 when I ran regular AA networks in my LaScalas. I still believe in straight axis horns, so an FH1 and LaScala bass bin comes a lot closer. When you can build a LAB 12 tapped horn for $300, I don't see why anyone would want to build horns that require corners with 3-4 folds in the process. Folding subwoofer horns has no consequence whatsoever on the sound, since the wavelengths are longer than 10 feet typically. Having lived with 2 different pairs of Khorns, with a mono LaScala center for 2 channel for over 30 years, I can honestly say I would prefer LaScalas and a Tapped Horn sub with proper EQ over my old setup. I also like 2" throats on my midrange, and would rather have a super tweeter than a +12 db shelving boost at 12 Khz., since I can time delay the tweeter and keep a full 90 degree dispersion over 8-18 Khz., which no CD midrange horn can do.

I will probably end up with Danley Synergy Horns at some point, if I can ever afford them, but for now, my "lowering of the stack" will get me closer to the ideal broadband, single source, speaker.

As to YOUR plan of making a narrower "sandwich" I have to question why, since the FH-1 easily gets to 800 Hz., unless you want the smaller throat to get you to 1Khz or something, but the response gets more ragged up there, which is why I don't want my bins to go beyond 400 Hz. using steep slopes. I think that with the Crites woofer, you would be better off with active PEQ.......the Behringer is less than $300 and Lepai chip amps are $26 each from Parts Express.

[dtel]

Congratulations on the 402's Claude. [Y]

Just for fun (raining all day) I brought the diy split LaScala tops I use in the workshop inside and put them with the MWM bottoms. I did this just to compare with the 402, it's been a long time since I switched out the 402's to compare.

Not even remotely close, I now remember why I wanted them so much. I guess i just got spoiled listening to the 402 all the time.

I wanted to try them inside partly because Kg4guy rebuilt the AA crossovers (THANK YOU) in them and they sound great in the workshop. But to compare them to the 402 is just not fair, I didn't know how unfair until I switched them today.

I think you will love the 402, and it's your favorite size huge.

[garyeanderson]

Claude

Do your FH-1 bass bins still have the full width motorboard slot opening? I was not that impressed with my ported FH-1 cabs with the round magnet K33 installed. If I get another pair of K33 (or Crites cast frame 1526) I will make up a 1/2 inch mounting board with a 3 x 13 inch slot to sandwich between the woofer and the current 5 1/8 inch opening in the cab. I have the stock Peavey woofers back in them now as part of my garage system so not much critical listening .

Probably, I never measured the throat. With the Behringer, but in my old basement home office, I got those bins to 30 Hz, which at that point were, effectively, direct radiators in a very tight "corner." . With PEQ and got a great 2-way with the EV DH1a's and the 960 horns. That is why I'm encouraged to do it again, as have the bins going to 50 Hz. now by simple squelching the ever present 160 Hz horn peak in the FH1 (my LaScalas did the same thing). Only this time, it's 3-way with the best midrange horn Klipsch has ever made (hats off to Roy Delgado).

PEQ's clean up the short bass horn really nice, but I do remember the upper end was WAY more defined with a K43 vs. a K33 when I ran regular AA networks in my LaScalas. I still believe in straight axis horns, so an FH1 and LaScala bass bin comes a lot closer. When you can build a LAB 12 tapped horn for $300, I don't see why anyone would want to build horns that require corners with 3-4 folds in the process. Folding subwoofer horns has no consequence whatsoever on the sound, since the wavelengths are longer than 10 feet typically. Having lived with 2 different pairs of Khorns, with a mono LaScala center for 2 channel for over 30 years, I can honestly say I would prefer LaScalas and a Tapped Horn sub with proper EQ over my old setup. I also like 2" throats on my midrange, and would rather have a super tweeter than a +12 db shelving boost at 12 Khz., since I can time delay the tweeter and keep a full 90 degree dispersion over 8-18 Khz., which no CD midrange horn can do.

I will probably end up with Danley Synergy Horns at some point, if I can ever afford them, but for now, my "lowering of the stack" will get me closer to the ideal broadband, single source, speaker.

As to YOUR plan of making a narrower "sandwich" I have to question why, since the FH-1 easily gets to 800 Hz., unless you want the smaller throat to get you to 1Khz or something, but the response gets more ragged up there, which is why I don't want my bins to go beyond 400 Hz. using steep slopes. I think that with the Crites woofer, you would be better off with active PEQ.......the Behringer is less than $300 and Lepai chip amps are $26 each from Parts Express.

I think I may need to re-think some things, and do some more playing around with them. That said your budget is huge compared to mine. I guess I need to sell some Klipschorns (I should finish them first) or something (bigger smile). thanks for your thoughts.

[Coytee]

I'm also going to get rid of the fantastic MB-1 horns

How does that compare to the Klipsch midbass unit? (I don't know number)

I've got the two single height MWM's and when used outdoors, was interested in finding the midbass unit. Even debating on getting the new KPT-305 MB however, for my applications, I've got to think the older version would work fine. We are after all, talking about just doing movies or something outside, not critical listening in a home environment.

If you decide to get rid of those and, if they'd work sandwiched between a single height MWM and a K402/K69 on top.... I'd be curious to hear more.

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm also going to get rid of the fantastic MB-1 horns

How does that compare to the Klipsch midbass unit? (I don't know number)

I've got the two single height MWM's and when used outdoors, was interested in finding the midbass unit. Even debating on getting the new KPT-305 MB however, for my applications, I've got to think the older version would work fine. We are after all, talking about just doing movies or something outside, not critical listening in a home environment.

If you decide to get rid of those and, if they'd work sandwiched between a single height MWM and a K402/K69 on top.... I'd be curious to hear more.

Richard,

There is nothing better than the MB-1 for midbas because it's a CD horn and it has a phase plug. It easily goes to 150 Hz. to 1.2 Khzwhich is the same as the new KPT midbass unit, but it has a 12" woofer with a 4" voice coil and a huge magnet.....109 db/watt input roughly. Besides, even with shipping by truck to FL or TN they are still way cheaper than even just one new Klipsch midbass.The MSSM is almost impossible to find and I would bet the MB-1's would outperfom them. You know you want these so PM or Email me for an offer you can't refurse. LOL

[ClaudeJ1]

I just got the faulty 1133 repaired (loose phase plug...Roy was right about the problem) with some plastic epoxy. They now curve about the same, so I'm happy.

Turns out that the 8 ohm 1133's have the same sensitivity as the 16 ohm JBL drivers when I curved them in the 402, which means they are about 3 db less efficient, but who cares.

I'm working on using the same kickass epoxy to fix the broken 402's today and mount them up on the platform/metal holder that came with them.

I just successfully updated the tweeter section in my left channel with the one "test" B&C DE250 driver from parts Express. They are about 1.5 db more efficient than the DE10 (they should because those are some heavy duty magnets on those tweeter drivers), so I will order another one today for the right channel. I will put the 5 B&C DE-10 drivers and 3 ME-10 horns (keeping 2 to use with the DE250's). The B&C tweeters were the best I found for the money, but I had to do twins to match up to the 109 db efficienty of the MB-1, which was the heart of the system, along with the big JBL's covering from about 180Hz. to 6Khz.........."The Midrange is where we live"---Paul Wilbur Klipsch.

When the glue dries on the 402's, I will then swap out the 402/1133's for the big JBL 2360a/2446J combo and up capacitor value in that section of my passive network for now. The final step will be to remove the MB-1's from the stack and go 3-way active (with steep Linkwitz-Riley slopes, PEQ's, and time delays), taking with it the first order passive network. I will be using the Tripath chip amps with power ratings of 15-20 Watts per channel, instead of the 100 watts per channel of my Onkyo receiver. Since I live in an attached condo/townhouse, I keep my levels at about 85 db at all times (HT standard calibration levels). This means that I'm typically about 20 db down in my power demands vs. 105-110 db/Watt of horn efficiency. I find that I measure about 10-100 MILLIwatts (.010-.100 Watts per channel). I can probably run the system off AA batteries if I had to, LOL.