Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think big money in politics influencing the tax code to favor such schemes for the benefit of top corporate executives who just can't seem to skim enough out of the system with their voracious appetites constitutes less than we as a people. We get what we vote for. Those of whom you speak only have power when we give it to them. Unless you are ready to concede that voting has no purpose whatsoever anymore, you have to agree that we, as a people, have approved these policies by voting for them. Our current situation suggests we haven't been making very good choices for a while now. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Economic Survey - what's your observations? Age: 30, wife age: 28. She's a RN and i'm in datacenter/manged services sales, so we've remained quite insulated. People don't stop getting sick, and as money gets tight companies look to outsourcing partners for their IT infrastructure as a means of reducing capex. Quite a few of our friends have struggled these past few years and it's been a very odd balance between being supportive and sensitive while having to explain why we're not in the same situation. we do what we can, when we can, but it's never enough. any of this could change at any moment, mind you... so we enjoy what we can each day at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't think that Space was/is the "final frontier" for Humankind and what you see as the mundane in Healthcare, negates the fact that we've progressed there by leaps and bounds in the last 20 years. Insofar as technology and jobs are concerned, the sky is the limit for R&D and there are jobs for people at every level of intelligence and expertise in the Healthcare field.. .Btw, I LOVE what the USA has done with it's Space Program but given all of the things still left to do on this planet, let the ultra-rich and Chinese continue on in that endeavor for the rest of us. Much of the medical technology in use today comes as a direct result of the space program. Integrated circuits, microprocessors, robotics, miniaturization are all trickle downs from the US space program. The Chinese did nothing that helped us put a man on the moon. Their idea of research and development is to reverse-engineer someone elses intellectual property, ie steal it. Are you kidding me? Who in their right mind would want to hitch a ride on a Chinese rocket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't think that Space was/is the "final frontier" for Humankind So we are going to keep making ourselves smaller or how do you intend to deal with infinite growth in a finite space? Perhaps interdimensional liebensraum on alternative, co-located earths we've not yet plundered? [] Anyway, as Don pointed out few realize just how absolutely pervasive spinoffs from space research are right here on earth, and just how much wealth was created by them. We are running out and have neglected to create more. A while back I was looking at a NASA high res colorized image of the lunar surface. One very prominent color covered about a fifth of the surface. I asked what it was and he said "Titanium...lots of it." Holmium, prometheium, samarium, ytterbium...you may never have heard of these but they are critical both to our economy and national security as well...and we have almost none of them. The moon is rotten with them, and more. Many of these riches are in that ancient layer of dust. Existing technology could easily devise automated harvesters to sort out the best stuff and leave the rest. This could be readily further refined on the lunar surface making good use of the free energy and vacuum, then simply shot back to earth (again, free) with an electric linear motor right into an LZ handy to the final refining plant. Far brighter minds than mine worked all this out years ago and now sit in amazement that nobody cares. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think big money in politics influencing the tax code to favor such schemes for the benefit of top corporate executives who just can't seem to skim enough out of the system with their voracious appetites constitutes less than we as a people. We get what we vote for. Those of whom you speak only have power when we give it to them. Unless you are ready to concede that voting has no purpose whatsoever anymore, you have to agree that we, as a people, have approved these policies by voting for them. Our current situation suggests we haven't been making very good choices for a while now. Dave Rethink the implications of the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision. We get a lot more than we vote for, and it can even remain hidden from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Okies. Let's see...how did these judges get where they are? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Rethink the implications of the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision. We get a lot more than we vote for, and it can even remain hidden from us. On that one I think the Republicans are rethinking the issue as well...The reason I keep bringing up "the Media," is because that seemed to be a right wing catch phrase up until they realized that it IS the SuperPacs that are funding them and it's wreaking havoc on their nominating process. Of course it's not going to get better when the General Election starts and my guess is that we will come to a consensus that it hasn't been good for the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Much of the medical technology in use today comes as a direct result of the space program. Integrated circuits, microprocessors, robotics, miniaturization are all trickle downs from the US space program. The Chinese did nothing that helped us put a man on the moon. Their idea of research and development is to reverse-engineer someone elses intellectual property, ie steal it. Are you kidding me? Who in their right mind would want to hitch a ride on a Chinese rocket? We aren't to the point where I would feel comfortable hitching a ride on anyone's rocket but it is the Chinese who are loaning us money now to do everything else that has been on our plate in the last 10 years so I'm not going to write them off as intellectually inferior yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yeah Dave I'm aware of the process and of course see your point from the start but do you really think the average voting joe should take the blame for all this? Or more pointedly the average non-voting joe? Money buys power---it is a fairly solid axiom of human behavior. Does voting give the big money power? Not all by itself. How do you take power away from the problem? Voting alone is unlikely to succeed. Revolution or conquest have been the traditional means of transferring power from one set to the next, and since we would be fixing ourselves that leaves revolution. Then there might be more of a basis for "we." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Simple formula: No money =No space program. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 We aren't to the point where I would feel comfortable hitching a ride on anyone's rocket but it is the Chinese who are loaning us money now to do everything else that has been on our plate in the last 10 years so I'm not going to write them off as intellectually inferior yet... Intellectually inferior? I've spent time in Shenzen, Hong Kong, Sheku, Hainan, and I assure you there is no sign of any inferiority. New York from the air looks like Peoria compared to Hong Kong and the mouth ot the Pearl River that has some 30 million people engaged in what we used to do. At night it is STUNNING! Your jaw would drop if you saw the island they extended and conformed to build an airport where there was no place for one...and if you've ever made that gut wrenching turn into the old Kai Tak you'll be glad they did. Godspeed them to the moon and beyond! I love America, but I am first and foremost a member of species Homo Sapiens. If we aren't going to lead, then let's be good and respectful followers. I'll ride their rockets! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It has been "rumored" that the Integrated Circuit, Fibre optics, Laser, were reverse engineered from a captured alien device at Area 51 and Dayton/Wright AFB which is larger underground than above ground. All the alien stuff was flown to Dayton/Wright including the four alien bodies which were disected and filmed. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 JJ, I don't know about each of those things, but I know for a fact that an AWFUL lot of technolgies were reverse engineer from spacecraft called Mercury, Geminii, Apolla, Challenger, etc. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 We aren't to the point where I would feel comfortable hitching a ride on anyone's rocket but it is the Chinese who are loaning us money now to do everything else that has been on our plate in the last 10 years so I'm not going to write them off as intellectually inferior yet... Intellectually inferior? I've spent time in Shenzen, Hong Kong, Sheku, Hainan, and I assure you there is no sign of any inferiority. Fwiw, I was being facetious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well, Oldtimer, there is no doubt about how we've been first agitated to a national frenzy idolizing our astronauts and their successes to a level of "let's send Newt to the moon and Romney to the White House." How can I explain to you or anyone why we've decided to be a second class power and shed the leadership that made us into the richest and most powerful nation in history? I simply don't know. However, the facts are plain as anything can be. When you look up at the moon you are looking at a storehouse of wealth and resources adequate to sustain us for centuries. It's rotten with enough water to sustain a very large population. Building ships there to voyage to Mars and beyond would be easy. These are not opinions, but clear scientific and already observed fact. And yet we sit on our thumbs and wonder where we'll get our next loan from. Just a few tons of gold from there (remember, it's star dust and every ounce on this planet floated down over eons...and on the moon as well where it's still just dust on the surface along with all the other more useful goodies) would fix that nicely. Very sad, indeed. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It has been "rumored" that the Integrated Circuit, Fibre optics, Laser, were reverse engineered from a captured alien device at Area 51 and Dayton/Wright AFB which is larger underground than above ground. All the alien stuff was flown to Dayton/Wright including the four alien bodies which were disected and filmed. JJK Let's not keep this as a global situation....If the aliens are that far ahead let them fund the space program and we can start paying the Chinese back for the other stuff. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Let's not keep this as a global situation....If the aliens are that far ahead let them fund the space program and we can start paying the Chinese back for the other stuff. Good idea. Then we can fund THEIR space program instead of getting the conservative estimate (extremely so, IMHO) 5 to 1 return on our own. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ...How can I explain to you or anyone why we've decided to be a second class power and shed the leadership that made us into the richest and most powerful nation in history? I simply don't know. Dave I don't feel we are a second class power, yet remember the last time we were respected as you suggest and it was on September 10, 2001...Afterward the World was on pins and needles to see how we were going to respond. Fwiw, I still think the USA is a first class power and I am proud to be an American regardless who is in office. Again, I wouldn't sell us short in the long run although admit things have changed since 2001 but are looking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't feel we are a second class power, yet remember the last time we were respected as you suggest and it was on September 10, 2001...Afterward the World was on pins and needles to see how we were going to respond. Military power doesn't breed respect, it breeds fear. "Respect" is what you get when one of your people is watched by the entire world and says "...and one giant leap for MANKIND." That's leadership. Leadership is also when you are pulled into a war kicking and screaming as with Pearl Harbor, and then shower your former adversaries with aid and support to get back on their feet. With the vast wealth we built based on our leadership in space, science, engineering, and other technologies it's taking a long time to wind down and use it up. But without making deposits to that account the time will come when someone else plants a flag on other worlds...I just hope they exhibt the kind of great leadership we have shown when that happens. We are still number one. Enjoy it while you can. Our British brothers relinquished their role as number one with grace and dignity. It will be interesting to see how well we do in that department. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Good idea. Then we can fund THEIR space program instead of getting the conservative estimate (extremely so, IMHO) 5 to 1 return on our own. My guess is that if Conservatives actually thought what you posit the Space Program would be funded to the degree you would like. Fwiw, if that was on any agenda I would consider it but don't see that in the national dialog by anyone especially by those that want "less government." I feel your best bet would be with the Democrats but would hold off until after next election because of what is being discussed in political circles today. My last 2 cents on the Space Program because I don't really have anything else to add to this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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