Deang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Measured on the floor, pushed up against the back wall Measurements tell you nothing about how your brain will react. Heresies are awesome speakers, but having lived with a pair of them sitting next to Frazier Mark IVs for a year or so some time back I came away with a slight preference for the Fraziers, and that had to do with a percieved accentuation of the mids. Just one guys experience. I've said before that it is my belief that PWK designed the Heresy in response to the Mark IV. No way to prove that, but they have much in common. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [:^)] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 A can of worms eh. Time to go fishing for acronyms and terms that can't be measured by science.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 A can of worms eh. Time to go fishing for acronyms and terms that can't be measured by science.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Measured on the floor, pushed up against the back wall Measurements tell you nothing about how your brain will react. Heresies are awesome speakers, but having lived with a pair of them sitting next to Frazier Mark IVs for a year or so some time back I came away with a slight preference for the Fraziers, and that had to do with a percieved accentuation of the mids. Just one guys experience. I've said before that it is my belief that PWK designed the Heresy in response to the Mark IV. No way to prove that, but they have much in common. Dave Alright Dave, just for devil's advocate sake, maybe the Fraziers had diminished midrange making the heresies sound accentuated. Like you I would not argue what your ears heard, but the devil's advocate might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Alright Dave, just for devil's advocate sake, maybe the Fraziers had diminished midrange making the heresies sound accentuated. Like you I would not argue what your ears heard, but the devil's advocate might. I would not argue that, nor suggest you are wrong. Listening to recordings made in spaces I am very familiar with I just found the Heresy just a HAIR to "precensy" (maybe I coined a word?) than my recollection of the actual space. As with most components of excellence, it took weeks to settle on and without them side by side I'd might never have noticed. I sure as heck wouldn't get into a major spat over it... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Listening to recordings made in spaces I am very familiar with I just found the Heresy just a HAIR to "precensy" (maybe I coined a word?) than my recollection of the actual space. So... they sounded like JBL L100s?Dave, my [:$] was in response to Dennis' post, not yours. [] Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Alright Dave, just for devil's advocate sake, maybe the Fraziers had diminished midrange making the heresies sound accentuated. Like you I would not argue what your ears heard, but the devil's advocate might. I would not argue that, nor suggest you are wrong. Listening to recordings made in spaces I am very familiar with I just found the Heresy just a HAIR to "precensy" (maybe I coined a word?) than my recollection of the actual space. As with most components of excellence, it took weeks to settle on and without them side by side I'd might never have noticed. I sure as heck wouldn't get into a major spat over it... Dave I can say I had a set of Frazier Mark V a's on a set of milk cartons in the corners, they could blow you away. The real problem with the Heresy is the lack of bottom end. Same reason I kept a set of KLF-30's over a set of LaScalas. It is a balance thing. Now Heresy's can sound very good on a very short stand angled up near a wall but they will not do real bass. My last three things are: This thread got hijacked [|-)] Look at classdaudio.com for fun. Some nice DIY Class D amps out there Back on Subject kind of -- If you do try an IcePower amp such as the my Bel Canto Ref 1000s, don't judge it after you plug it in. It needs to be plugged in for at least 24hrs to stabilize - sadly. Never turn it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I don't really understand why you would respond that way to what Dennis had to say. The Heresy was designed to be used exactly in that way. On the floor and against a wall or in a corner they have a very well balanced FR. No, the bass will not thump or jump out at you, but it is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 " maybe the Fraziers had diminished midrange making the heresies sound accentuated" Bingo! The Frazier Mark IV might even measure flat on-axis, but the midrange energy in the reverberant field just isn't goint to be there. That 10" driver will have about 125° dispersion in the 1Khz range, decreasing to about 62.5° at the 2Khz crossover point. In contrast, the Heresy 12" woofer has about 140° dispersion at the 700hz crossover point. At lower levels (80db~100dB) the Fletcher-Munson curves suggest one might prefer this dip in the power response, I would rather use a loudness control than have this 'built in' to the response of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 " maybe the Fraziers had diminished midrange making the heresies sound accentuated" Bingo! The Frazier Mark IV might even measure flat on-axis, but the midrange energy in the reverberant field just isn't goint to be there. That 10" driver will have about 125° dispersion in the 1Khz range, decreasing to about 62.5° at the 2Khz crossover point. In contrast, the Heresy 12" woofer has about 140° dispersion at the 700hz crossover point. At lower levels (80db~100dB) the Fletcher-Munson curves suggest one might prefer this dip in the power response, I would rather use a loudness control than have this 'built in' to the response of the product. I think that may have been why I liked the MontiCarlo better, it had the 8". Seemed like it played music very well top to bottom. As far as Heresy 1's with the k-77, they sounded terrible on 24" stands. Screechy... put them down low and pretty balanced within their frequency limits. The II made up some for that if you had a sub. You could have the good imaging and full frequency response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Do you have a list of newer receivers that have digital input and don't require a dac on the front end serving some unput such a USB and a lot of the Topping offers? The XR, Sony Direct Drive Digital amplifier, NAD, and Tact amplify in the digital domain from what I have read. Others mearly convert the digital and send it to a switching amplifier. I'd like to know if there are any amps out there with outstanding sound quality, still produced, and don't use analog inputs or a typical DAC internally. My thoughts are that current production with HDMI and HDCP has probably just about killed hopes of having very high quality. Except for lower end audio where cost of the resulting product is going to be inexpensive, manufactures will try to squeeze by not having large component costs and not using multiples of expensive input connectors. Missed this earlier, sorry. Those you mention above, and the brands listed in that PDF I attached span the current gamut. I wouldn't worry about HDMI killing off anything. At worst, it'll bury itself...nothing it can do that Ethernet baluns and DVI couldn't already accomplish years prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Dave, my was in response to Dennis' post, not yours. And my response was just pulling your chain...[] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I just got one of these used in mint condition, the 275X3. It's a sleeper... http://www.sonance.com/files/downloads/file/275SEDataSheet_Final2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 ...No one will admit the obvious. It's on the tips of their tongues and it's strategically encrypted in their glowing reviews, yet no one in the circles will step forward to profess...no professional reviewer can bring the words forward: Given the correct source, digital chip amps simply mop the floor with everything else.Now that the emotive arguments have been made (it seems to be a triggering subject for a lot of folks--I would've thought that fully horn-loaded speakers would be the passionate subject on this forum, but I see that PWK lesson is easily forgotten).I recently converted an article by Nelson Pass on amplifier distortion and feedback to a pdf file. There are some interesting observations: 1) Single-stage amplifiers seem to sound a lot better, multiple-stage SS amplifiers (BJT) tend to sound flat and opaque (i.e., higher-order harmonics are apparently much more objectionable in multi-stage amplifiers) 2) Amplifiers with harmonic distortion will express their distortion as AM distortion (i.e., non-harmonic distortion). Most people prefer low-distortion amplifiers over those with higher harmonic distortion (according to Nelson Pass - the figure is about 2/3s of the people he's witnessed), even if those low-distortion amplifiers have odd-harmonic distortion--like you get in push-pull designs. Even 0.01% THD is audible when it comes back as AM distortion. As long as you only listen to kick drums, bass, guitar, and perhaps voice, a lot of folks don't hear the effects of AM distortion (e.g. high-THD SET amplifiers sound odd when trying to reproduce string orchestras). 3) Low impedance amplifiers (also known as "high damping factor" - but is better described as low output impedance) sound a lot more neutral and balanced. 4) Class "B" amps tend to be identified as poorer sounding amps. This statement tends to include even class "AB" amps. 5) Class "D" amps apparently sound very neutral and balanced (they all tend to have very low output impedance and low switching distortion). It's no secret that many/most class"D amps are using MOSFETs. See some patterns? Let me help you: a) my First Watt F3 amp is a JFET amp with a single amplifier stage the F3 also has extremely low harmonic distortion c) the F3 has output impedance that is less than 1/10th the input impedance of the load it is driving (TAD TD-4002 drivers). d) the F3 is dead quiet, even turned up almost to full gain. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Why don't you tell us again why you like the F3... [] Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thanks for the cue Bruce - I guess my comment is something like: well, maybe you don't need to have an F3 - maybe what I'm listening to can be achieved by other means. Even by tube amplifiers (if designed well). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 See some patterns? Well said. Game for other amps so long as the source is analog. But for digital material, it's becoming a tough sell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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