Need a new receiver

[ivanhurd]

That's kinda odd...I wonder why they set it up like that...Most AVRs (that I've read about) have 10hz steps...

[joshjp]

Yea it is, so if i use the dial i never know were its set at.

[joshjp]

Well i just email Epik, so i will have to wait for a reply.[]

[dtel]

It really comes down to what sounds best in each room. But it always helps to know the general idea so you don't start trying things and are off base from the start, it's not like only one or two combinations of settings overall.

We don't use the HT for music 98% of the time, the 2Ch speakers make it almost imposable to enjoy the Ht for music, not even close. Which is good, I guess, but also partly the reason the Ht receiver is a little outdated. [:S]

[derrickdj1]

The LFE channel is a production channel used by movie makers and the likes for the very low frequencies. The subwoofer is a playback channel used at home for reproducing the LF's. The LFE channel in the avr should be set no lower than 120 since the movie makers put the LF's, 120Hz or less into that dedicated channel. Setting it lower, will cause a loss of some LF information/signal. Setting the sub x-o all the way up allows for bass management via the avr. With a x-o of 60 or 80 mean that the speakers don't have to produce LF below that point. Setting all speakers to small in the avr allows for good bass management. X-0 settings in the avr greater than 100, can become directional and the subwoofer can be localized. Any speaker that is set to Large will also playback the .1 or .2 LFE. I have my sub x-o all the way up, the speaker x-o at 80 and all speaker set to small. The sub cannot be localized the bass respone is better than having some speakers set to large and the overall bass volume is higher. I find this works well with speaker woofers 8in. or smaller.

[willland]

Okay here you go.

When I was using my Onkyo TX-SR705 with my RF-63 system, this is how mine was set:

RSW-10d crossover control on subwoofer display-------------depressed button beyond 120HZ to OFF

TX-SR705 LFE setting-----------80Hz but my understanding is that LFE information extends to 120Hz as is often highly suggested if you want all the signals to pass through.

RF-63's----------FULL BAND? NO with crossover set to 60Hz

RC-64----------- FULL BAND? NO with crossover set to 70HZ

RS-35's---------FULL BAND? NO with crossover set to 80Hz

As you can see, even though my speaker crossovers are set differently, the LFE signal will still pass through at 80Hz.

There are (3) different types of "crossovers" that come into play here, (1) subwoofer onboard controls(disengaged), (2) LFE(80Hz to 120Hz), and (3) individual speaker crossovers(which have nothing to do with 1 or 2). (2) and (3) are settinngs chosen from the receiver's/prepro's menu.

Bill

[ivanhurd]

The LFE channel is a production channel used by movie makers and the likes for the very low frequencies. The subwoofer is a playback channel used at home for reproducing the LF's. The LFE channel in the avr should be set no lower than 120 since the movie makers put the LF's, 120Hz or less into that dedicated channel. Setting it lower, will cause a loss of some LF information/signal. Setting the sub x-o all the way up allows for bass management via the avr. With a x-o of 60 or 80 mean that the speakers don't have to produce LF below that point. Setting all speakers to small in the avr allows for good bass management. X-0 settings in the avr greater than 100, can become directional and the subwoofer can be localized. Any speaker that is set to Large will also playback the .1 or .2 LFE. I have my sub x-o all the way up, the speaker x-o at 80 and all speaker set to small. The sub cannot be localized the bass respone is better than having some speakers set to large and the overall bass volume is higher. I find this works well with speaker woofers 8in. or smaller.

Ha, so I was mostly right =^P I guess I was correct the first time in saying it's possible to lose some of the LFE info.

[tmassey]

I love your drawing!

[psg]

Wow, four pages since last night...

sub crossover switch is set to off but I have the dial up to 120 Max. per svs advise. the umc-1 should over ride the sub anyway I think but the subs crossover is off. the umc-1 is set at 120 for the sub now.

That's okay. I'd go higher to make sure not to filter out any LFE content, but that's okay.

[psg]

If the xover on the receiver is at 80Hz and the sub is at 120Hz and the LFE channel wants to send a 100Hz frequency to the sub, does the receiver route the >80Hz to the mains or does the sub end up playing the 100Hz frequency because it is in the LFE channel? My head hurts....I'm headed to bed and will catch up with this thread tomorrow. Haha

The sub will play the 100 Hz signal in the discrete LFE channel.

Many of you are thinking of the sub as ONLY playing low bass intended for other speakers. But it also gets ALL of the discrete LFE channel which can go up to 150 Hz in movie sound tracks. I think that the freqency setting for the sub on the UMC-1 is a low-pass filter; setting it to 120 Hz means that it filters OFF frequencies above 120 Hz from the signal going to the sub, including the LFE channel. The UMC-1 has other high-pass frequency settings for the main, center, surround and rear speakers, where you would pick something like 80 Hz to send low frequencies intended for speakers to the sub.

[dtel]

That was one of the things throwing me off, I had no idea what the LFE channel did.

If the LFE channel has the info it shouldn't matter what you set the other speaker crossovers at, the sub would get whatever is on the recording. It's then up to you to decide what your other speakers can handle and sound best at.

Do I understand that right ?

[joshjp]

So i guess i can just put my SUB all the way up to 150Hz.

[Heritage_Head]

The LFE channel is a production channel used by movie makers and the likes for the very low frequencies. The subwoofer is a playback channel used at home for reproducing the LF's. The LFE channel in the avr should be set no lower than 120 since the movie makers put the LF's, 120Hz or less into that dedicated channel. Setting it lower, will cause a loss of some LF information/signal. Setting the sub x-o all the way up allows for bass management via the avr. With a x-o of 60 or 80 mean that the speakers don't have to produce LF below that point. Setting all speakers to small in the avr allows for good bass management. X-0 settings in the avr greater than 100, can become directional and the subwoofer can be localized. Any speaker that is set to Large will also playback the .1 or .2 LFE. I have my sub x-o all the way up, the speaker x-o at 80 and all speaker set to small. The sub cannot be localized the bass respone is better than having some speakers set to large and the overall bass volume is higher. I find this works well with speaker woofers 8in. or smaller.

The LFE channel is a 100% separate from the other channels. The only reason they call it .1 is because it
has a tiny frequency response compared to the other 7 channels (0.5% of a
normal 20-20,000 Hz channel). Setting
your speakers to large does NOT mean that the lfe information will be sent to
that speaker. Now some avrs do have functions (like I think double bass is one
not sure on the names) where the lfe info can be sent to the fronts (but that’s
more a gimmick than the norm). But setting your center channel to large will
NOT mean that lfe information will be sent to your center. Large and small mean
only this: bass management on or off (on would be small off would be large). Why
they call it large and small I have no idea. Setting a speaker to small engages
the bass management in your avr that redirects bass from those channels to the
sub.

[Heritage_Head]

So i guess i can just put my SUB all the way up to 150Hz.

Yes that works but that isn’t always the best. 120 is the norm but that doesn’t mean it will

sound best in your room with your tastes. I would try different settings and see what

you like best. Setting a crossover on a sub or another speaker has absolutely

no right answer.

[psg]

So i guess i can just put my SUB all the way up to 150Hz.

If you don't want to trim anything off of the LFE channel, yes.

[psg]

That was one of the things throwing me off, I had no idea what the LFE channel did.

If the LFE channel has the info it shouldn't matter what you set the other speaker crossovers at, the sub would get whatever is on the recording. It's then up to you to decide what your other speakers can handle and sound best at.

Do I understand that right ?

I think so.

[Heritage_Head]

That was one of the things throwing me off, I had no idea what the LFE channel did.

If the LFE channel has the info it shouldn't matter what you set the other speaker crossovers at, the sub would get whatever is on the recording. It's then up to you to decide what your other speakers can handle and sound best at.

Do I understand that right ?

Yes very close. Lfe is

all by itself. If you crossover another speaker (turn to small) at say 80hz

then anything that would have gone to that speakers below 80hz is now sent to

the sub on top of the lfe info that is already being sent.

Think of it like 8 hoses of water (7.1). The water in each hose has its own color (own

information separate from the others). The 8^th hose is the lfe hose.

Bass management lets us send water (information) from other hoses to the lfe

hose. (Sorry if that’s a terrible example)

[roaddog359]

Ok, I spoke to Ed Mullen the technology director of SVS and I asked him if he could explain things so he sent me the below email. Hope this clears up some of the sub and crossover settings confusion:

1) The low pass filter should always be disabled at the subwoofer (the AVR will be low-passing the signal being sent to the subwoofer).

2) The phase should always be set to 0 at the subwoofer (the AVR will be setting the acoustic distance for the subwoofer).

3) None of the speakers should be run on full-band/full-range - they should all be bass managed, even floor standers. There are rare exceptions to this general rule - consult with SVS as needed.

4) Select a speaker/subwoofer crossover for each channel which is appropriate for the bass extension and dynamic output capabilities of that speaker - typically 40-60 Hz for floor standers, 60-100 Hz for bookshelf and center channel, and 80-120 Hz for surrounds. These are just guidelines - each case is unique. Also note some older AVRs lack the ability to set a separate crossover for each channel. In cases like this, consult with SVS on the best global crossover which will work with all speakers.

5) The 'LPF for LFE' (low pass filter for the LFE channel) should be set to 120 Hz (the industry encoding standard for DVDs allows content in the LFE channel up to 120 Hz). The speaker/subwoofer crossover selected for each speaker channel is separate and independent from the LPF selected for the LFE channel - they have no bearing on each other.

When all of the above steps are performed, the subwoofer will receive the LFE channel, and the redirected bass from each speaker channel below the speaker/subwoofer crossover selected for that channel.

[ivanhurd]

^^^pretty much what we have all been saying =^)

I love your drawing!

It took me 3 hours! Ok, maybe not =^P MS paint ftw.

That was one of the things throwing me off, I had no idea what the LFE channel did.

If the LFE channel has the info it shouldn't matter what you set the other speaker crossovers at, the sub would get whatever is on the recording. It's then up to you to decide what your other speakers can handle and sound best at.

Do I understand that right ?

This sounds about right.

[Heritage_Head]

umc-1 is set at 120 for the sub now.

Not a good idea. I don't believe SVS was telling you to set the xover at 120 on the UMC-1. That is WAY too high for sub frequencies. Typically it is recommended somewhere at 80Hz or lower depending on your setup.

I personally choose to set my RF-83's to FULL so they handle all frequencies and set my dual 15's at 50Hz. The RF-83's play down to 29Hz so there are no "gaps" or "holes" in the xover setttings.

If I did choose to set a xover for the mains, I probably would set them at maybe 60Hz and the sub at 60Hz as well. 120Hz would be WAY too high of a setting. The only time you would use 120Hz would be if your UMC-1 is set to a Xover frequency. By setting the xover on your sub to 120Hz, you are basically just allowing the UMC-1 to dictate what frequencies for the sub to play.

Does that make more sense?

50 is pretty low youth. You are basically cutting your lfe

content in half. Even though you have your 83s at full range you’re still

losing that lfe content in the 50-120 range (I know crossovers aren’t a brick

wall but still that’s a lot). That content

doesn’t get rerouted to your mains like it would with the other speakers using bass

management. It’s just filtered out by the crossovers (like it was never there).

I have tried 50 just messing around and it does sound really

good. So I know it sounds amazing and definitely

if you like it better that way by all means keep it. But just as a factual

point you would technically have a hole in your lfe channel by setting your

subs at 50 Hz (just saying).

Movies are so different from another that one setting isn’t always

the best. That’s why I have a few different presets on my sub eq (sms-1). I have

one at 80 Hz one at 100 and one at 120. I

usually know within 15min which one I want to use. No point being stuck with just one when one sounds

better on one movie vs another.