The History of the Jubilee

[dtel]

I remember (could be wrong) the Tad's alone are almost or around half the price of a set of jubs with the k69 drivers.

I did hear them and they are really nice on the 402 but at that price there is no way for me to do that.

[kaiser SET say]

I think you are spot on with that one Dtel, we listened to all those combinations that one trip to hope, TAD's, K69's, 402 Horn (the smaller one was what a 5 something, 510 maybe). I only mention this because I thought the only "REAL" PWK Jubilees were the pair in Ms. Val's living room and the pair in the NM Museum, they had the 403 horns if I'm remembering right.

Seems there are a pleathora of Jub versions out there these days but without Paul himself completing a retail version of the Jubilee who's to say what the real Jubilee is or it's configuration. I personally have no doubt the Jubilee would have been the next incarnation in the PWK heritage line had he actually gotten it to full production. I have always felt that if Roy were to finish up where he and Paul left off with the Jubilee it should be as close to the two originals but hey that is just me and my thoughts on them.

I will say this the first time Roy played "Hotel California" off the "Hell Freezes Over" CD on his lab Jubs with the K69/402 combination I almost freaked out at how much sound that 2 way system put out and how sweet it sounded so maybe one day he will bring a Roy modified pair of PWK Jubilees to market. I know you can get them now and in different configuration but like other Heritage speakers I'm hoping they come out with one final product that is constant for the most part like all have been from the start in 1946 with the exception of manufacturing modifications as they would normally come up.

[Coytee]

Those mods do not appear to be for improvements in construction. I wonder why they were put there. BTW isn't that the same speaker that appears with Paul where he is standing with the Jub to his right?

I respectfully disagree. (not that I'm an engineer or have any qualifications to say anything! [])

Here's a build thread of Mike's & mine being built.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/77599.aspx?PageIndex=3

With no more expertise than "it seems to me"...

It seems to me that if you are putting those little 6" supports in there, they are a certain height. They're a certain height going into something that has a flair to it. Now they have to be in the exact spot or you might have one higher than the other and they might not properly fit the flair (at least I would if I were building them). I can attest that I'd have myself covered in glue trying to fiddle with several of those supports like that.

Having the 'shelf' in there, other than the point Chris brings up about it perhaps causing reflective issues, gives a solid support on the appropriate plane and with the appropriate angle. Seems to me there is much less dinkering around with fine adjustments to get things lined up AND to get the supports inthe right area. Simply slap the shelf in and lay the outer panel on top of it, glue/nail and call it a day. I would think it's a major win/win as I would expect the building process to be easier, faster AND stronger. Simply put I personally think the new design is an improvement over the old design. Not that I have the wallet to simply buy these things left & right but, I've thought it would be nice to buy another pair simply to get the better build (and pretty finish). I could then use my current pair during some outdoor movies.

I don't know that the picture of the unit is the specific unit that PWK was standing next to. I think there is more than one pretty unit like that.

[Coytee]

what do a pair of Jubes run now? is the K402 + TAD the "standard" HF or is it a factory option, and if so, how much?

Cornman answered you.

1. (I) don't know about the current cost of them today

2. The TAD is not available from Klipsch at all. It was never any type of option by Klipsch. The TAD is an expensive bugger and from what I understand, they have also been discontinued in lieu of a new improved replacement. I think it's now the TAD 4003 BUT, I don't think the 4003 (or whatever the number is) has the adapter to take it to a 2" horn. I think it's a 1 1/2" exit. At least, from what I've been able to research that's the case.

3. The K69 (as easily as it is bested by the TAD 4002) is still a fine driver and would make all but the most persnickity listeners happy. (did I just call all my TAD owning friends Persnickity...? Well... some of them are engineers... [:#] )

[dtel]

Seems there are a pleathora of Jub versions out there these days but without Paul himself completing a retail version of the Jubilee who's to say what the real Jubilee is or it's configuration. I personally have no doubt the Jubilee would have been the next incarnation in the PWK heritage line had he actually gotten it to full production. I have always felt that if Roy were to finish up where he and Paul left off with the Jubilee it should be as close to the two originals but hey that is just me and my thoughts on them.

If I remember correctly ? It was close to production with plans for the wood top horn and it was all ended when the company making the wood horns could not replicate exactly what they wanted (and tested to be true) and still the cost went out of site. The reason for the wood horn was to make them look more acceptable for home use. The 402 was tried and did great but was introduced after everything fell through with the first plan of a wooden horn to dress them up.

I think this is when the cinema line really took off and expanded and the home jube was never really completed as far as looks to be marketed. It was available for purchase if you really wanted one but not really official so it was like a special order thing not really advertised being they didn't want to market it looking like the raw version it is.

As far as i can remember this is kind of the story with some of the "details" left out and rounded off and really speeder than it happened.

One thing i can say is for the original people who heard them they were so impressed they didn't really care what they looked like, if anything they would do the finishing decorating part after they had them.

If you hear a pair set up correctly it would be hard to understand someone not liking the sound, the looks are a whole other thing.

And from everything I have heard it was to be the next version of Heritage and originally maby even for the 50th Anniversary which fell through because of time to complete what was the original plan. Plus Mr PWK was getting up in age and also was considering selling at the time.

[bracurrie]

what do a pair of Jubes run now? is the K402 + TAD the "standard" HF or is it a factory option, and if so, how much?

Cornman answered you.

1. (I) don't know about the current cost of them today

2. The TAD is not available from Klipsch at all. It was never any type of option by Klipsch. The TAD is an expensive bugger and from what I understand, they have also been discontinued in lieu of a new improved replacement. I think it's now the TAD 4003 BUT, I don't think the 4003 (or whatever the number is) has the adapter to take it to a 2" horn. I think it's a 1 1/2" exit. At least, from what I've been able to research that's the case.

3. The K69 (as easily as it is bested by the TAD 4002) is still a fine driver and would make all but the most persnickity listeners happy. (did I just call all my TAD owning friends Persnickity...? Well... some of them are engineers... )

What about the Faital HF200? They are reasonable and as Bob Crites can attest perform nicely with the K402. I am using them with the Eliptrac 400 and getting very pleasing results. Warning: You can fuss with these things alot to get them where you like them. But thats what makes them so much fun. []

[Coytee]

If you hear a pair set up correctly it would be hard to understand someone not liking the sound, the looks are a whole other thing

If someone is retentive about looks over sound (for a speaker of all things...) then it's easy... buy the K510 and build a top section much like the Khorn that would then fit on top of the Jubilee and slap that K510 in there and move on with life.

You can now have a "Khorn-style" looking speaker with the gawd-awful ugly tophorn hidden inside a box. For all I know, mounting the K510 on a motorboard like that might offer some improvements as well.

Either way... it's just a matter of some cutting & nailing so if someone was serious about their interest and serious about the asthetics, there is a way to get there. They should in fact rejoyce that Klipsch isn't doing it because if Klipsch did do it, the price would jump even higher and now they'd have something else to prevent them from pursuing their dreams.

Although this is a LaScala, pretend the top section is sitting on a Khorn or Jubilee....this is what I mean.

[Coytee]

What about the Faital HF200?

I have no clue. I'd have to defer to Bob or others that are more familar with them

[bracurrie]

If someone is retentive about looks over sound (for a speaker of all things...) then it's easy... buy the K510 and build a top section much like the Khorn that would then fit on top of the Jubilee and slap that K510 in there and move on with life.

I would assert that Dave's Eliptrac 400 with driver of choice could be put in a nice looking top and make an attractive looking set. If they weren't so freaking wide.[8-)]

[Coytee]

I would assert that Dave's Eliptrac 400 with driver of choice could be put in a nice looking top and make an attractive looking set. If they weren't so freaking wide.

I'd agree with you however (speaking for myself), there are some retenive types who prefer a 100% Klipsch engineered solution. Staying with those parts allows you to have something that is literally plug & play and you know it's been fully tested and engineered. (no disrespect to Dave or anyone else who make enhanced parts for these speakers we all love)

Here's my point.... if you take "Brand X" top horn, place it on top of a Bass bin, are you done? Do you have the parts fine tuned enough to know that the bass bin might need to cross at 450Hz BUT, the HF horn needs to cross at 380Hz to give the best sound possible?

I don't know anything about crossovers, passive nor active. I would have never thought that the HF horn might need to have its crossover point below that of the bass bin. Simply strikes me as counter-intuitive. I could see them both being at the same frequency or, the HF crossing a bit higher but UNDER the bass bin? No way.

So if someone uses a horn that isn't fully tested and engineered for said application, can you really be 100% sure you're getting the most out of it?

Note, this is NOT to say that any said horn might ot sound great.

As for the width of Dave's horns (I've never seen one) but the Jubilee bass bin is pretty wide on its own. I'd have to think you could still build a tophat for it large enough to house just about anything??

It would be nice if Roy would design a horn in between the size of the 402 and 510. Maybe a 475!

[bracurrie]

I would assert that Dave's Eliptrac 400 with driver of choice could be put in a nice looking top and make an attractive looking set. If they weren't so freaking wide.

I'd agree with you however (speaking for myself), there are some retenive types who prefer a 100% Klipsch engineered solution. Staying with those parts allows you to have something that is literally plug & play and you know it's been fully tested and engineered. (no disrespect to Dave or anyone else who make enhanced parts for these speakers we all love)

Here's my point.... if you take "Brand X" top horn, place it on top of a Bass bin, are you done? Do you have the parts fine tuned enough to know that the bass bin might need to cross at 450Hz BUT, the HF horn needs to cross at 380Hz to give the best sound possible?

I don't know anything about crossovers, passive nor active. I would have never thought that the HF horn might need to have its crossover point below that of the bass bin. Simply strikes me as counter-intuitive. I could see them both being at the same frequency or, the HF crossing a bit higher but UNDER the bass bin? No way.

So if someone uses a horn that isn't fully tested and engineered for said application, can you really be 100% sure you're getting the most out of it?

Note, this is NOT to say that any said horn might ot sound great.

As for the width of Dave's horns (I've never seen one) but the Jubilee bass bin is pretty wide on its own. I'd have to think you could still build a tophat for it large enough to house just about anything??

It would be nice if Roy would design a horn in between the size of the 402 and 510. Maybe a 475!

The fact that there isn't a "factory" home Jub makes it ideal for us to have fun because try as anyone might they can't really say what the ideal factory setup is. Even using the k402 horn with Roy's crossover recommendations with EQ still provokes the desire to go for the holy grail, hence the love for active solutions that are easy to tweak. I am not too concerned with components that are not Klipsch engineered. I know what I am hearing and would have a hard time believing I am off the mark in my listening position. Besides, the hard part is the bass bin which is Klipsch engineered, flaws and all.

Understand, I may be trying hard to justify my choice of the Eliptrac 400, and yes some day I would like to hear a K402 horn, maybe I can worm my into hear Rigma's setup. My fear there would be one of envy. If I heard the k402 would it set a new standard to my ears that I would "have to have"? There goes the budget.

On my previous post I goofed. I meant to say the bass bins were wide.

I know enough to be dangerous when it comes to crossovers. Its like chasing your tale as you consider, is it the slope (I thought Butterworth was a syrup), is it the crossover frequency(whada ya mean they don't have to be the same on both sides?)or is it the amplifier(ey gad). I have tried all the recommendations I could find and even tried a few of my own using my mini DSP (its easy to use). Oddly enough I ended up using EQ on the bass bins that I believe originated from Roy and then knocked down the midrange area with EQ that is mostly from the HF horn to make my jazz sound realistic. It was the tube amp on the HF that really did the trick for me, I haven't made a change in two months, where I would make one or two a day.

Three years after getting the clones and one year after getting the Eliptrac 400 horns I found what appears to be the holy grail in sound. So I guess its time to hear a real Jubilee with K402 horns. Then what? Race cars? Nah. Oh I know: single driver full range speaker systems.[^o)]

How do they come up with those model numbers anyway? How about a 427 or 454? [H]

[dtel]

My fear there would be one of envy. If I heard the k402 would it set a new standard to my ears that I would "have to have"?

It would depend on how much difference it is from what you have, and also what your sound preferences are, you never know ? well that was not a big help was it. [:S]

I have never heard the Eliptrac, I heard the 402 before it was around, it was then over for me, well actually my wife said "that's what I want" the first time she heard them. I like the looks of the Eliptrac horn but to be honest I have no reason to even think about anything else, never thought I would say that but after 40 years of changes it's true, I'm done testing, time to listen. [8]

I love the MWM's but the real treat to me is the 402 horn. I have compared it to other Klipsch horns here and it's special.

At almost 4 years of listening to this set, I am very happy every time I listen, it's my last setup. I don't have jubes but it's the closest thing to jubes and the main thing is it's the same top horn.

As usually IMO

[bracurrie]

I'm done testing, time to listen.

Please enjoy the music and the banter. I am happy you are happy. Time for a refreshment attitude change

[dtel]

It's all about the music anyway. [Y]

[Coytee]

It's all about the music anyway

I agree. I'm glad I'm a techno-dummy. I like that I took Roy's ingredients and plugged them in and was (essentially) done. I had some bugs to iron out but, I don't fall into the camp of now having an active crossover so I'm going to go tweak-crazy....

Roy said the settings should be this & this & that....so I make them this & this & that and consider them done.

Now...where is my copy of Marie.... [:$]

[Turbox]

a 510 on Jubilee's sound great and is a great working solution as coyotee mentions, it is an all Klipsch solution, plug and play really. I've now moved to the 402 with a 510. In my sapce which is 20 by 23 a 510 worked great, honestly i didnt need to move to to a 402 for the size of my room, but glad i did...

[seti]

a 510 on Jubilee's sound great and is a great working solution as coyotee mentions, it is an all Klipsch solution, plug and play really. I've now moved to the 402 with a 510. In my sapce which is 20 by 23 a 510 worked great, honestly i didnt need to move to to a 402 for the size of my room, but glad i did...

That is cooool.

[Turbox]

For my Centre channel(which i am still undecided about), i might go to a Jubilee with a 510(two way) because of space limitations. I already know it works and is a good two way solution. not a 402, but still great sounding.

[PrestonTom]

I would also stay with a Klipsch horn on the top also. Either a K-510 (the small one) or the K-402 (the big guy). The K-510 is small enough so that it can be put into a cabinet and made pretty. The K-402 would be more difficult.

My personal feeling is that if the room is large enough the K-510 will start to sound fairly close to the K-402 (I did not say identical).

I did experiment with some other horns. One that I liked was the Electrovoice HP 640 (that model in particular, do not confuse it with other Electrovoice horns). It is about 28in wide and 13in tall and takes a 2 inch driver.

Good luck,

-Tom

[Coytee]

One mans home made solution to hiding the ugly K402 (Kudret's fine work)

Rhetorical question: I wonder if someone would rather buy a pair of Jubilee's with K402 (for example), $10,000 BUT the K402 is ugly and sitting on top of the speaker OR, pay (again, for example) $20,000 for the SAME speaker with the SAME horn but it now looks like this yet, sounds identical?