The History of the Jubilee

[seti]

It seems we don't know much if anything about the horns that Valerie had made up for her Jubilees. All we know is that she had one of the originals, and had it reverse engineered. I guess we don't know anything else, is that right? Roy of course is right. How can he or Klipsch be held responsible for a horn they had absolutely nothing to do with? Obviously if the horn doesn't couple to the driver properly, you're going to have major issues -- doesn't matter what the polars look like.

Many of us saw one of the original wood horns. It looked really nice. The issue was that Roy couldn't find anyone to build it to his standards. IOWs, it wouldn't curve right.

So, there are three versions of the K-403. 1) The wood versions, 2) The original fiberglass versions, 3) and the reverse engineered versions -- and no one liked the sound of any of them except PWK and Iain. Seriously, if Iain likes the sound he's getting out of them, they must of okay. I suspect Maron is just deaf.

I'd never accuse Maron of being deaf as he has been through more gear than i'd likely ever hear but I'm thankful they didn't like the 403.

[boom3]

I have no idea Boom3, but if your ever interested in hearing the K402/K69's you could always come hear. By far not a perfect listening room and it's not on jubes, but you could get an idea, if you haven't heard them already ? Were 30 min North of Slidell La

thanks, that is very kind. I have a pal who live in Picayune and I need to visit her. I will try to do that this spring, I have another N.O. trip planned for late Feb/early march

[colterphoto1]

(raising my hand from back of the room) hey guys, guys...did anybody figure out the current price of a pair with K402s/K69s?

We have been asked NOT to post any pricing here, as those products are sold via a 3rd party company.

[ZAKO]

DEAF,,? MY MY !!!! Far from it,,,Several people here audition,d it here with me,,All came to the same conclusion,,I dont live in a vacuum,,,Mike was shocked at how bad the 403 was,,,He sent it to me,,I conformed its sonic limitations,,Friends from St Louis came here and also were surprized,,and came to the same conclusion,,I guess I should have sent it back to Klipsch Company,,But some one else wanted it,,,Maybe Dean would have loved it.

[Deang]

Now Maron, you should know me well enough by now that I would never say something like that and actually mean it.

Why would you send them back to Klipsch? Valerie didn't use Klipsch to have those made.

[ClaudeJ1]

<p>

My fear there would be one of envy. If I heard the k402 would it set a new standard to my ears that I would "have to have"?  

</p><p>It would depend on how much difference it is from what you have, and also what your sound preferences are, you never know ? well that was not a big help was it. <img src="http://community.klipsch.com/emoticons/emotion-7.gif" alt="Tongue Tied"></p><p>I have never heard the Eliptrac, I heard the 402 before it was around, it was then over for me, well actually my wife said "that's what I want" the first time she heard them. I like the looks of the Eliptrac horn but to be honest I have no reason to even think about anything else, never thought I would say that but after 40 years of changes it's true, I'm done testing, time to listen. <img src="http://community.klipsch.com/emoticons/emotion-29.gif" alt="Music"></p><p>I love the MWM's but the real treat to me is the 402 horn. I have compared it to other Klipsch horns here and it's special. </p><p>At almost 4 years of listening to this set, I am very happy every time I listen, it's my last setup. I don't have jubes but it's the closest thing to jubes and the main thing is it's the same top horn.</p><p>As usually IMO </p>

As a guy who's owns K-402's with KLIPSCH made K1133 drivers, I have also heard K-402's with TADs and K-69's on K402's and K510 on top of Jubilee bass bins. I have also heard K402's with K69's on top of full MWM bins. I have heard Elliptrac and Martinelli horns on top of Golden Jubilees at W.C.'s place. I have also done some audio engineering and testing on the Jube Like Drone with different passive radiators and some expensive Eminence woofers in place of the K-31's, measured the results and did some musical listening with Roy's test CD's on ALL of the combinations. I have heard Rigma's setup with two clones and 5 factory Jubes with TADs on K402's and Klipsch drivers on K510's.

It is better to talk about what they all have in common, rather than the differences. First of all, the bass bins are ALL the same. The biggest difference in the sound of the bass bin is the ROOM they are in AND what kind of PEQ is used on them (passive or active) and where you put the MICROPHONE/EARS. I could put up some of my curves for the sake of argument and education, but that would further confuse the issues. The latest Khorns also use some EQ in the bass bin.

HORNS are NOT flat, which is why Flat frequency response was always ranked 4th out of 4 important things by PWK's principles.

What I learned from Roy and lots of listening and measurements and finally OWNING K402's is: The BIGGER the Horn, the better the horn, if there is no other overriding small size critera. Heck I have mine sitting on a cheap LaScala/Belle Klipsch equivalent cabinet and the mirange is bigger than the woofer, for gosh sake. It's not about looks for me obsiously.

I have also owned 4 Klipsch MWMs and 2 clones with about 16 different EV and JBL horns. The K-402 is arguably the best performer, but ALL of the combinations I have heard sound better than the Klisphorns I owned for over 30 years. PWK always improved the Khorn over it's life and sounds better than ever, so having a purist "original" anything doesn't make sense to a music LISTENER instead of an old speaker collector.

The Jubilee bin has greater efficiency, greater output capability, and lower distortion the than the Khorn bass bin. If you buy a pair of Jubilees through a commercial dealer like W.C., with K-402's and K-69's, along with an EV active Xover to go with your twin stereo ampliifers (pick your flavor and watts are cheap these days), you will be rewarded with, not only some of the finest sound on the market, but a real BARGAIN in the world of audio. Take it from an expericed DIY cheapskate like me!!

[ClaudeJ1]

Understand, I may be trying hard to justify my choice of the Eliptrac 400, and yes some day I would like to hear a K402 horn, maybe I can worm my into hear Rigma's setup. My fear there would be one of envy. If I heard the k402 would it set a new standard to my ears that I would "have to have"? There goes the budget.

With a good driver (are there really any bad ones, even if you buy used) and proper PEQ, the Elliptrac 400 is a good sounding horn. You don't need to justify anything to anyone. BUT you sill need to PEQ the bass bin also, wheter it's a Jube, Khorn, MWM, or, in my case a future home made Corner 2/3 MWMs of my own design.

I have heard Rigma's setup and it is top drawer stuff, however when you kick in the "bang for the buck" in the equation, the Elliptrac 400 with a modern driver and good PEQ wins.

[ClaudeJ1]

I did experiment with some other horns. One that I liked was the Electrovoice HP 640 (that model in particular, do not confuse it with other Electrovoice horns). It is about 28in wide and 13in tall and takes a 2 inch driver.

I have 3 of those horns, and I agree, they are a very good horn when PEQ's right. I even like the 940 as well (I have 2 of thse), which looks more like a 510. One of the Klipsch engineers worked at EV and said those were both very "musical" horns.

[Deang]

Good posts Claude. Nice job.

[ClaudeJ1]

This pair of "Golden "Jubilee's" reside in Charlotte, NC

Having been there and moved those suckers myself to measure and hear, while doing some engineering work with W.C., I can attest to the tremendous quality of the build. Not to mention the extreme rarity and value. Yes the back woofer chambers are stuffed full of foam (for the really curious).

[ClaudeJ1]

Good posts Claude. Nice job.

Thanks Dean, I liked your post also about Roy's fully engineered Jubillees. I forgot to mention that I also heard the 3-way Jubillee, which is in the Cinema catalog, with K-402/K1133 and K510/K69 as tweeters. That was actually my favorite top end of because of the full 90 degree dispersion above 5 Khz. In my case, I went with the QSC horn and the excellent B&C DE-250 1" driver for a tweeter, since a K-510/K69 in the home would be seriously expensive OVERKILL, according to Roy, even if I had to push it though a movie screen, like Rigma does for his center channel Jubilee.

[ClaudeJ1]

It's nice to finally see a picture of Mike Faulkner -- I believe he built all of the prototypes for PWK and Roy, and he's named and thanked at the end of the JAES paper.

So I guess you're the person that picked up all of Mike Klementovich's gear after he put it up on AudiogoN? Man, that was one crazy ad. I know Mike switched out the original driver, which I'm pretty sure would have been the B&C, for the Beyma. You mentioned that you prefer the passive in a two-way configuration, but surely you know that the passive in those things was designed to be used with the B&C and K-403? I mean, you can't just swap drivers and horns around without making some changes to the networks. Well, you can, but you shouldn't.

This is the same thing I told W.C. when I was there. But I must admit, despited all that, the Martinelly and the Elliptrac 400 with the same Beyma drivers, really sounded good, so I can see why he's happy with it even if not Textbook perfect.

[ClaudeJ1]

I have no idea Boom3, but if your ever interested in hearing the K402/K69's you could always come hear. By far not a perfect listening room and it's not on jubes, but you could get an idea, if you haven't heard them already ? Were 30 min North of Slidell La

Not to burst anyone's bubble about the Jube bass, but I agree with JW Cullison. He build his own full 2 PI Tractrix bass horns with the MCM 4T top end and Klipsch Twin 18" subs: "If you are using a subwoofer, why would you want a folded horn for the bass, since you only need to get to 70-80 Hz.?"

It's called compromise, and I admit that I much prefer MWMs bass over the Jubillee or the Khorn. Simpler construction, and anyone who's ever heard them side by side with K402 on BOTH, goes WOW when the MWM's switch on.

Eldon, doesn't it still blow your mind that you have 20-foot tapped Horns with little 8" drivers in small cabs that keep up with Twin 15" drivers in the MWM?

If I ever get close to your neighborhood I'm coming over. OK?

[ClaudeJ1]

so I suggested that he go three-way -- which isn't exactly a bad idea considering what I'd heard down in Hope when Roy fired up the three-way version.

I was equally impressed when I heard the 3-way, which is why I own it now, in slightly better cheaper form.

[bracurrie]

Understand, I may be trying hard to justify my choice of the Eliptrac 400, and yes some day I would like to hear a K402 horn, maybe I can worm my into hear Rigma's setup. My fear there would be one of envy. If I heard the k402 would it set a new standard to my ears that I would "have to have"? There goes the budget.

With a good driver (are there really any bad ones, even if you buy used) and proper PEQ, the Elliptrac 400 is a good sounding horn. You don't need to justify anything to anyone. BUT you sill need to PEQ the bass bin also, wheter it's a Jube, Khorn, MWM, or, in my case a future home made Corner 2/3 MWMs of my own design. I have heard Rigma's setup and it is top drawer stuff, however when you kick in the "bang for the buck" in the equation, the Elliptrac 400 with a modern driver and good PEQ wins.

Many thanks for chiming in here! This and your previous post really sets the record straight so to speak.

I agree about the bang for the buck observation because without testing anything I was clairvoyant enough to know that the Eliptrac 400 with Faital HF200 combo would be the best value.[]

Would you please post the PEQ settings for the Jube bass bin that you may have collected. I know Roy has a set and then there are some others that add a bump down around 30Hz. Also some detail on crossover settings that have been used with several of the popular HF horn combinations. Thanks

[dtel]

thanks, that is very kind. I have a pal who live in Picayune and I need to visit her. I will try to do that this spring, I have another N.O. trip planned for late Feb/early march

Just let me know when your interested.

If you want, (totally up to you) we could also compare it to something like a different mid and high frequency top, I do have some DIY split LaScala tops, it's a K400 mid and Bob crites tweeters with new AA crossovers that can be used with a single base bin each, I have done it before.

Or side by side with Clll's, Heresy ll's, Rb-75's, just in case you wanted to hear something for a reference point.

Or just listen, it would be up to you, the only source connected right now is blu ray player/cd with streaming internet radio, so if you had any of your own music, you could try it, as long as it's cd/dvd. [:$]

[dtel]

Eldon, doesn't it still blow your mind that you have 20-foot tapped Horns with little 8" drivers in small cabs that keep up with Twin 15" drivers in the MWM?

If I ever get close to your neighborhood I'm coming over. OK?

Yes it's hard to believe it keeps up I didn't think it would, It's all in the design, and I really don't think I am pushing it hard at all really ? I have the gain on the sub amp set at around 10- 12 o'clock position and it's (i think) 170 wpc @ 8 ohms, crossover at the lowest point 40 Hz.

The 15'' sub I had before, Shiva driver in a 5 Cf ported box toasted the first time i tried to use it with the MWM's, with the same amp and close to the same crossover point 40 hz. I know the driver was not the best but it did fine for Ht with the forte ll's for a couple of years before that with what sounded like alot of output.

If your ever in the area just let me know.

[Turbox]

so I suggested that he go three-way -- which isn't exactly a bad idea considering what I'd heard down in Hope when Roy fired up the three-way version.

I was equally impressed when I heard the 3-way, which is why I own it now, in slightly better cheaper form.

Claude is yours passive or Active 3 way?

[seti]

Thanks Dean, I liked your post also about Roy's fully engineered Jubillees. I forgot to mention that I also heard the 3-way Jubillee, which is in the Cinema catalog, with K-402/K1133 and K510/K69 as tweeters. That was actually my favorite top end of because of the full 90 degree dispersion above 5 Khz. In my case, I went with the QSC horn and the excellent B&C DE-250 1" driver for a tweeter, since a K-510/K69 in the home would be seriously expensive OVERKILL, according to Roy, even if I had to push it though a movie screen, like Rigma does for his center channel Jubilee.

Yeah I agree the K-402/K1133 and K510/K69 is my favorite top end of anyhing I have heard so far. This was clearly evident when we listened to them at JC's house a couple years ago. We listened to the 403 w/b&cde82, 402 with various drivers, 510, 402/510 also several of the tractrix top hats one from Greg Roberts, one from Gothover or Alk. This was all on top of JC's killer tractrix bass bin. The 402/510 combo just sounded better than anything else that was there. That was alot of work rolling through those horns but at the end of the weekend we all wanted to hear that combo again.

[kaiser SET say]

Obviously because you "Know it all " Dean, you left your notebook" on Val's Jub[]

I love the way one persons opinion and we are all allowed one unless your not a what "Builder, Designer or Engineer" with credentials? It's also a known fact many did not like the 403 but hey if those crazy Italian's had not shaved the mumps off the wooden proto we may all be listening to the 403 today[]

I listen to Seti's reverse engineered 403's all the time and they sound darn good, we spun up 5 or 6 albums at his place last night and think I've come to the conclusion that if it's not Dean built or approved its just no good eh[:^)] I find my comments and opinions of the Jubs no more idiotic than anyone elses or their version of it. Don't you just love the internet[A]