Jim and Laura Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thanks for all the response on the, How Much Can They Really Take question... I don't really understand all Technical stuff, but I'm sure you guys know what you're talking about... But I do know this. I have an A21 Areosound 250w per channel amp that I roll up to about 2 oclock on the old Volume Dial and my the Khorns sound OMG!!! GOOD!!! Thanks again Everyone... ROCK ON!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 18, 2013 Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2013 Welcome, great speakers, have fun and try not to knock pictures off the wall or the wife will be upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Well I have a Harman Kardon 430 vintage reciever with 24 watts an at 11o-clock on the dial you would be hard pressed to stay in the room. Just a thought. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugeroost Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 and if your runnin a tube amp, about 5 watts is all you can take, so I hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 and if your runnin a tube amp, about 5 watts is all you can take, so I hear Yeah, those "tube watts" aren't your ordinary watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindstone Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Sounds right to me. Since I've had Corns & Georgians I listen louder than prior. Could be that I'm making myself deaf by listening louder, but I swear efficiency just really makes me want to turn the knobs up higher. It's like the horn thing where you don't notice how loud anything is until you try to talk to someone next to you. I mostly run a low-watt tube thing and I gotta say 4w is about all it'll do and it's more than I can take in here (unless I've been into the beer or something--then it's fine or a little light). Thinking I've really only been to "eleven" 4 times--one of those was to see what it did, one was to try to study what the amp did, and the other 2 were probably beer-induced. Room is smaller than many spaces (guessing 25x14x8) but half-throttle is probably atypically loud in here. I remember reading Sound Practices years ago and Joe wrote something like "power ain't nothin' but a number" somewhere. I get that, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yeah. Klipsch ought to update their specs. They need to tell us stuff like: If you power KHorns with 20 solid state watts, you get 110 dB, but if you power them with 20 tube watts, you get 130dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 20, 2013 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, Time to put the boots on Maron. [] [] Well when you add in clicks and pops from a LP to that tube amp you only need 4 7/8 wpc. [] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, lmao C, mon. Everyone knows that tube watts aren't ordinary watts. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, lmao C, mon. Everyone knows that tube watts aren't ordinary watts. Isn't that a given? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindstone Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Good to see everyone having fun and nice to have learned a new button of a board. For my bit, I was responding to huge's 5w spec as being Plenty loud but Jeff beat me to posting. I actually took huge's bait, not Jeff's. The clipping behavior arguments were settled years ago, watts are watts, gain is gain, and, in home audio, there are no standards for the connections between them. Touche on me for not qualifying gain--fair-point. Actually, I don't mind being made sport of if it'll drag Maron out of the shadows. <PS: Boxx -- is it true you made 13,549 posts in 3+ years? That has to be some sort of record for an organic.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Some times sombody has to stop a runaway train and throw the conductor under the weels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 20, 2013 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2013 <PS: Boxx -- is it true you made 13,549 posts in 3+ years? That has to be some sort of record for an organic.> I don't post just anywhere but when I do, I don't play around ! Stay thirsty my friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindstone Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Some times sombody has to stop a runaway train and throw the conductor under the weels.Yup, completely agreed if I was a conductor and if that was my train. That's the point--out-of-order posting created an Imaginary Train. Lesson-learned: Always include quotes when responding. Light me up for saying 5W is enough here and for omitting gain--I'll stand by all that. The "tube watts" bit, nah. Not that I can't cook-up some juicy troll of my own...just need time for that. Thanks for taking the time and hope you are well. I don't post just anywhere but when I do, I don't play around ! Stay thirsty my friends Wow! Yes, I'm new here, but yours is a completely grand spirit and I am humbled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 10-21-2001 2:08 AM djk "I hope I dont sound like a complete dolt here but exactly what is the advantage of a low power tube amp vs. solid state stuff. " Are you sure there is an advantage for tubes? In the beginning there was the phonograph. And it was good. And then came the tube. And it was, well it was louder. But not necessarily better. Feedback. Push-pull. FETs. Then bi-polar transistors. The first transistor amps were copies of tube amps, just made with transistors. They inherited all the warts from the tube designs and picked up a few of their own. Notice that I haven't said anything bad about the transistor yet. Lack of odd harmonic distortion in tubes. False. All feedback amps have higher odd harmonics. The feedback only cancels even harmonics. This is true whether it is a tube, transistor, or MOSFET. A single ended amplifier with no feedback does produce predominantly second harmonic distortion driven just into clipping. Beyond 6dB into clipping the spectrum analysis shows the odd harmonics start to rise and look the same as a feedback amplifier. Electrolytic capacitors don't sound good. The dielectric absorbs part of the signal passing through. When used as a coupling device the electrolytic gives up this charge when the signal goes through the zero crossing point. That means when it is supposed to be dead silent (the zero crossing point) all the hash comes out. Because of the high voltage in tube circuits they don't have electrolytic caps in the signal path. This is one of the main reasons cheap tube gear from the 50's and 60's sounded better than early solid state gear, they didn't have electrolytic coupling caps. When you hear tube freaks looking for 'Black Beauties', 'Orange Drops', and "Vitamin Qs" they are talking about coupling caps. They also didn't need electrolytic caps in the power supply either. Electrolytic caps in the power supply have poor transient response. In transistor amps this translates into muddy bass. A choke input filter in a tube amp requires only a small high voltage filter cap. A 170W triode amp I used to own only had a single 9µF filter cap, a 'paper-in-oil' type (another tube freak gaga item). A cheap 2A3 based amp found in a console type hi-fi used a choke input filter and was single ended with no feedback. The first transistor amps were electrolytic coupling cap renditions of high feedback push-pull tube amps. They had the extra warts of electrolytic capped power supplies and electrolytic output coupling caps in addition to their electrolytic input coupling caps. Remarks by 'homeless' tube freaks about the superiority of their glorified 2A3 juke box amps should be taken in this context. The solid state examples they have given as their 'reference' (B&K and Bryston) use un-bypassed electrolytic caps in their signal path and power supply, not to mention high negative feedback. Adding about $4 worth of film bypass caps in the right spots and $1 worth of emitter de-generation resistors to the diff inputs to reduce open loop gain will totally change the sound of these kind of amps. At this point in time the only affordable way to hear a solid state amp without electrolytic caps and feedback is to DIY. The http://www.passlabs.com/ site has good DIY content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Remarks by 'homeless' tube freaks about the superiority of their glorified 2A3 juke box amps should be taken in this context. This was very clever... [Y]Even though I DO like my 2A3 amps. The same ones in fact. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 C,MON,, IVE READ ALOT OF BS BUT THIS IS SPITTING OUT THE EARS,,, lmao C, mon. Everyone knows that tube watts aren't ordinary watts. Isn't that a given?I happen to enjoy the [bs] as that's what makes it fun to lurk here. Have to admit I've learned a few things too. [Y] ....Taz Still got my devil [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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