Modding my AA La Scalas to 2 ways

[Islander]

See next post.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Islander

[Islander]

Actually, that's the "little" K510 horn. The larger K402 horn that's also used on JubScalas and nearly always on Jubilees is a bit bigger than a whole La Scala cabinet, at 41 inches wide and over 20 inches tall. It's the only instance I'm aware of where the tweeter is bigger than the woofer, quite a bit bigger in fact.

The picture you posted is of my original right JubScala. Last June, I bought a pair of La Scala IIs and promptly converted them to 510 JubScala IIs. The original La Scalas (with CT125 tweeters and Sonicaps) are now behind the sofa, serving as left and right surround speakers, displacing a pair of Heresy IIs.

This is my current right speaker. The LS2s are a definite upgrade over the original La Scalas.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Islander

[NBPK402]

I am assuming that once you add the 510 horn to a LaScala I or II they will sound pretty much identical... Is this correct? How do you like the 510s? Any disappointments?

[Islander]

To answer your first question, the La Scala IIs sound like what they are: a much improved original La Scala. Since the main improvement is in the bass section, adding the 510 horn and K-69 driver makes the JubScala II high end the same as that of the original JubScala, but the low end on the LS2s is much better. The stiffer cabinet walls allow them to produce more bass, and slightly deeper bass. They have a more authoritative sound than the first-generation models. The bass horn design is also smoother, lacking the step after the straight sections on the sides of the doghouse. This may reduce distortion slightly.

As for the 510s, they're just part of the package that includes the K-69 drivers, the E/V Dx38 digital processor/crossover/delay unit, and the two matching 2-channel power amps. The 510s can't really be heard in isolation, since that kind of C/D horn needs a lot of EQ, which the Dx38 does invisibly, using the Klipsch-supplied settings. This includes time-alignment of the woofers and tweeters. The difference is subtle but noticeable. It all adds up to a big overall improvement in sound.

The difference in sound, in terms of detail, imaging, and dynamics, between a standard La Scala and a JubScala, has to be heard to be believed. The JubScalas really are in a different league from the standard La Scalas. The LS2 speakers take it a step further in the bass department.

The barely-finished looks of the 510s make them seem a bit overpriced, but the sound makes up for it. Also, the bigger presentation that the higher tweeter position gives makes up for the funky look of the horns sitting on top of the LS or LS2 cabinets.

This will sound like bragging, but it's true: every single visitor who has heard the system has been highly, not slightly, impressed.

[NBPK402]

Thanks for the info on the 510s... I might just go that route later.

Question: Would it be better to just drill 2 holes in the bass box for the wires or just get some speaker box terminal cups with banana plugs? I have one bass box just about ready for veneering now and would like to get this one finished ASAP.

tia,

Ron

[Islander]

There should already be a hole for the lead to the woofer. It will be on the top of the bass section, likely off to one side. My 1974 La Scalas are "top-loaders", with the woofer being accessed from the top of the bass section/floor of the HF section. The woofer cable runs under the access panel and is not pinched because it runs across the foam weatherstrip that surrounds the panel.

The later models access the woofer from the bottom, and I don't know where their woofer cable goes through the cabinet, but it gets to the crossover somehow.

If you were to install terminal cups on the back, like the ones found on Industrial La Scalas, that could look good.

Are you bi-amping, or just connecting the woofer to the existing crossover? If you're going with the second option, I'd just hook it up in stock fashion.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Islander

[NBPK402]

I added a 2nd skin of 1/2" Birch Plywood to the entire bass bin (except for the front mouth area)... I also flipped the bass box upside down to where the woofer access hole is on top. I cut a recess into the new 1/2" ply around the hole and will be making a cover for it. I still have to decide how I am going to mount the Faital horn, and where I am going to put the Bob Crites "A" crossover. I am debating making a new motorboard or doing something where the horn is out there by itself. I also made some feet out of 2x4 Poplar that run the depth of the speaker (these are angle cut to give a retro look to the LaScalas). Hopefully Sunday I will have one ready for Veneer (luckily since I have some boo boos to cover up)... If I do I will post some pics of it so far.

[Islander]

It's simplest to mount the crossovers near the rear edge of the top of the bass section, so you can easily connect the speaker cables to them.

As for the tweeter horn, it can be mounted in the front panel in the stock position, whether it's a Faital or a K510, since they're not any taller than the combination of the stock K400 and K-77 tweeter.

Mounting the tweeter horn higher than its stock position does not look stock, and for that reason may not appeal to everyone, but it gives a larger presentation that makes it seem more like the performers are on a stage above you, not sitting on chairs on the floor in front of you. You might want to experiment with how different tweeter horn positions affect the sound before committing to your final design.

Pictures of your progress are always welcome here.

[NBPK402]

I am looking at making some new wires for the bass and horn... I will be sleeving them since they will be in full view. Would this be good enough to use for the internal wiring? http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023904&p_id=4044&seq=1&format=3#specification

I hope to have pics of one speaker today... It will still need a bass box cover and mounting of the horn, and crossover but other than that it should be ready for veneering.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ellisr63

[NBPK402]

I decided to stain it red mahogany instead of veneer... Here are 2 pics of the progress so far (speaker is upside down).

On Monday I will sand and finish the staining the speaker. I am going to paint the interior black including the woofer cavity. I still need to work out the mounting of the horn too. I am trying to come up with a nice freestanding horn mount that I can adjust for height.

[Guest David H]

Looking good.

Dave

[Daan]

Very interesting project, will follow this thread to see what you end up with.... I made some changes while building some projects and it only added to my enthousiasm in the end.

Good luck and remember to enjoy the build itself.

Nico

[Dr Morbius]

Yes, enjoy the build, but enjoy the sound even more!

[NBPK402]

Well I wasn't happy with the stain so I stripped it back off and I am adding another layer of 1/4" Maple to the sides of the cabinet and maybe the backs. I still need to make the supports for the horn too. I think the horn supports will be like the floating curved wine bottle holders. I just have to figure out how they bend the wood to get the nice curve out of them. The only other option I can think of is to get some 4x6 or larger wood beams and cut them to the shape with a bandsaw.

[minermark]

I have 3 late 1970s vintage La Scalas that I am going to do some mods on.

I just ordered all the parts to complete the mods and this is what I am planning to do.

1: Cut the top box off of the La Scalas

2: Reskin the speaker bass bins with an additional layer of 1/2" Birch Plywood

3: Make a new motor board for my new horns

4: Cut out a hole for my Faital LTH142 horns

5: Install my new Faital HF140 drivers

6: Install my new Bob Crites type A crossovers

Something like this for the upper box...

What do you think? I would have loved to go with the Jubes but this is a budget upgrade.

Exactly the project I will be doing in the future, well done and a dam nice hone install.

[Schu]

what a great thread...

where does one source the 510's or the 402's since they never seem to come up for sale on the secondary market?

[Islander]

You can order them directly from Klipsch, as far as I know. I don't know the current prices, but several years ago a pair of K510s cost $1350 a pair, and K402s cost $2000 a pair. That includes a pair of K-69 drivers and basic stands. The horns are not available without the drivers.

Hope this is helpful.

[Islander]

I decided to stain it red mahogany instead of veneer... Here are 2 pics of the progress so far (speaker is upside down).

On Monday I will sand and finish the staining the speaker. I am going to paint the interior black including the woofer cavity. I still need to work out the mounting of the horn too. I am trying to come up with a nice freestanding horn mount that I can adjust for height.

ellisr63, those look really good. However, I thought I should mention that having the space under the bass bin could have a negative effect on the sound. It violates PWK's 5th Cardinal Point for Sound Reproduction, as you can see here:

http://itishifi.blogspot.ca/2010/05/eight-cardinal-points-in-loudspeakers.html

For practical purposes, you could make up small panels to close off the cavity and see if you can hear any difference. The theoretical difference might not be audible in this particular case.

[Coytee]

what a great thread...

where does one source the 510's or the 402's since they never seem to come up for sale on the secondary market?

As Pat referenced, from Klipsch however, it would be through a cinema dealer, not Klipsch per se'.

You (anyone with interest) could contact WC at Panacea engineering.

[NBPK402]

I decided to stain it red mahogany instead of veneer... Here are 2 pics of the progress so far (speaker is upside down).

On Monday I will sand and finish the staining the speaker. I am going to paint the interior black including the woofer cavity. I still need to work out the mounting of the horn too. I am trying to come up with a nice freestanding horn mount that I can adjust for height.

ellisr63, those look really good. However, I thought I should mention that having the space under the bass bin could have a negative effect on the sound. It violates PWK's 5th Cardinal Point for Sound Reproduction, as you can see here:

http://itishifi.blogspot.ca/2010/05/eight-cardinal-points-in-loudspeakers.html

For practical purposes, you could make up small panels to close off the cavity and see if you can hear any difference. The theoretical difference might not be audible in this particular case.

So, you are saying to close off the front of the space below the bass bin (between the 2 legs)? Not a problem I can do that.... I was just copying what Volti had done with a pair. It might all be moot when I build a false wall up in front of them with a AT screen.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ellisr63