bracurrie Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Should I use my AVA solid state amp or my Manley Labs tube amp for my Jubilee clones, then using the other for my 25Hz tapped horn subs? Current system: Computer digital front end using Pure Music active crossover driving a two way system. Manley GY50 Stereo 100 http://www.manley.com/mds.php driving Faital HF200 drivers attached to Eliptrac 400 horns. Audio by Van Alstine Synergy 240 http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=158&Itemid=209 driving Jubilee clones with Crites drivers. Current problems: The Manley is too noisy for the super efficient tweeter horns. All grounding has been confirmed and impedance mismatch has been eliminated as a possible cause. I now have some classical recordings in high resolution digital with 30db from the quietest parts to the loudest cresendo so a dead quiet amp would be desirable for the tweeter horns. As good as the Jubilee is for bass, it rolls off at 38Hz and I would like to go lower. Changes: I am going to try a three way system. I have committed to buy an ampsandsound.com Stereo 15 amp from Justin Weber. He and I talked on the phone at length and given my preference for rock, blues, pop, classical and jazz, he believed the push pull 15 watt tube amp would be a good match. If its as dead quiet as he claims (no real reason to doubt him) It will take the place of the Manley. I have also purchased two complete kits to build a pair of the 25Hz tapped horns https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138019-25hz-tapped-horn/ . I want to try and go three way with the tapped horns as subs and thus my need to decide the following: Question: Do I use the Manley or the AVA for the tapped horns and the other for the Jubilee clones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Should I use my AVA solid state amp or my Manley Labs tube amp for my Jubilee clones, then using the other for my 25Hz tapped horn subs? Current system: Computer digital front end using Pure Music active crossover driving a two way system. Manley GY50 Stereo 100 http://www.manley.com/mds.php driving Faital HF200 drivers attached to Eliptrac 400 horns. Audio by Van Alstine Synergy 240 http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=158&Itemid=209 driving Jubilee clones with Crites drivers. Current problems: The Manley is too noisy for the super efficient tweeter horns. All grounding has been confirmed and impedance mismatch has been eliminated as a possible cause. I now have some classical recordings in high resolution digital with 30db from the quietest parts to the loudest cresendo so a dead quiet amp would be desirable for the tweeter horns. As good as the Jubilee is for bass, it rolls off at 38Hz and I would like to go lower. Changes: I am going to try a three way system. I have committed to buy an ampsandsound.com Stereo 15 amp from Justin Weber. He and I talked on the phone at length and given my preference for rock, blues, pop, classical and jazz, he believed the push pull 15 watt tube amp would be a good match. If its as dead quiet as he claims (no real reason to doubt him) It will take the place of the Manley. I have also purchased two complete kits to build a pair of the 25Hz tapped horns https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138019-25hz-tapped-horn/ . I want to try and go three way with the tapped horns as subs and thus my need to decide the following: Question: Do I use the Manley or the AVA for the tapped horns and the other for the Jubilee clones? If I had a Manley and it was too noisy I'd be pissed. I've used six different tube amps on my Jubilees and none of them were noisy. I biamp most of the time and still haven't had that issue. However I did have noise when I was using actives. I have passives built by Bob that were designed by Roy. They have the low end eq boost. I have no need for subs which is good because I've only heard two that I've liked. Edited January 11, 2014 by seti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 If I had a Manley and it was too noisy I'd be pissed. Well, yes I was. But then I tried several other amps and discovered the same thing with them as well. The HF200 Eliptrac 400 is just that good. If I was running passives there probably would be no noise. I have passives built by Bob that were designed by Roy. They have the low end eq boost. I tried various EQs that either don't work in my room or didn't seem to work at all, but until I tried my Sunfire and listened to some bass heavy material I didn't know what I was missing. I also tuned the phase adjustment to get the timing of the sub right and that really made the bass clean and tight.Do you know the specifics of the EQ built into your passives? Thanks Seti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If I had a Manley and it was too noisy I'd be pissed.Well, yes I was. But then I tried several other amps and discovered the same thing with them as well. The HF200 Eliptrac 400 is just that good. If I was running passives there probably would be no noise. I have passives built by Bob that were designed by Roy. They have the low end eq boost.I tried various EQs that either don't work in my room or didn't seem to work at all, but until I tried my Sunfire and listened to some bass heavy material I didn't know what I was missing. I also tuned the phase adjustment to get the timing of the sub right and that really made the bass clean and tight.Do you know the specifics of the EQ built into your passives? Thanks Seti Sorry for the delay. I do not know the specifics on the EQ. Bob Crites knows the crossovers pretty well. I would ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I have a pair of manleys. I do find them noisier that SE amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just got my Manley GY50 back from being reset to factory specs. After running down a grounding problem its pushing the Jubilee clone cabs right now. I am really surprised that compared to the Audio by Van Alstine Synergy 250 SS amp its just not as good. The AVA is tighter and faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Too much gain. What does "fast" sound like? I normally associate that with a lack of lower bass. The passive is Roy's low pass design with Bob's high pass for the HF200. The high pass looks like 12dB/octave. I don't want to come off like the crossover police because I have no horse in this race, but the passives, along with the Zobel for the TAD and the EQ for the low pass are proprietary, and Roy does not want them given out or posted on the forum. The original, first passive design is out here, but I'm pretty sure that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 What does "fast" sound like? This is what happens when I start trying to be an audiofool. It sounds more realistic fast attacks are just that as well as fast decay. it could be less distortion. Too much gain Not sure I follow this. I have to rebalance after the switch, then I listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Should I use my AVA solid state amp or my Manley Labs tube amp for my Jubilee clones, then using the other for my 25Hz tapped horn subs? Current system: Computer digital front end using Pure Music active crossover driving a two way system. Manley GY50 Stereo 100 http://www.manley.com/mds.php driving Faital HF200 drivers attached to Eliptrac 400 horns. Audio by Van Alstine Synergy 240 http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=158&Itemid=209 driving Jubilee clones with Crites drivers. Current problems: The Manley is too noisy for the super efficient tweeter horns. All grounding has been confirmed and impedance mismatch has been eliminated as a possible cause. I now have some classical recordings in high resolution digital with 30db from the quietest parts to the loudest cresendo so a dead quiet amp would be desirable for the tweeter horns. As good as the Jubilee is for bass, it rolls off at 38Hz and I would like to go lower. Changes: I am going to try a three way system. I have committed to buy an ampsandsound.com Stereo 15 amp from Justin Weber. He and I talked on the phone at length and given my preference for rock, blues, pop, classical and jazz, he believed the push pull 15 watt tube amp would be a good match. If its as dead quiet as he claims (no real reason to doubt him) It will take the place of the Manley. I have also purchased two complete kits to build a pair of the 25Hz tapped horns https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138019-25hz-tapped-horn/ . I want to try and go three way with the tapped horns as subs and thus my need to decide the following: Question: Do I use the Manley or the AVA for the tapped horns and the other for the Jubilee clones? If I had a Manley and it was too noisy I'd be pissed. I've used six different tube amps on my Jubilees and none of them were noisy. I biamp most of the time and still haven't had that issue. However I did have noise when I was using actives. I have passives built by Bob that were designed by Roy. They have the low end eq boost. I have no need for subs which is good because I've only heard two that I've liked. Hmmmm. "Low end EQ Boost from a PASSIVE network." And without batteries to boot. Must be magic or really, really, advanced science. I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Should I use my AVA solid state amp or my Manley Labs tube amp for my Jubilee clones, then using the other for my 25Hz tapped horn subs? Current system: Computer digital front end using Pure Music active crossover driving a two way system. Manley GY50 Stereo 100 http://www.manley.com/mds.php driving Faital HF200 drivers attached to Eliptrac 400 horns. Audio by Van Alstine Synergy 240 http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=158&Itemid=209 driving Jubilee clones with Crites drivers. Current problems: The Manley is too noisy for the super efficient tweeter horns. All grounding has been confirmed and impedance mismatch has been eliminated as a possible cause. I now have some classical recordings in high resolution digital with 30db from the quietest parts to the loudest cresendo so a dead quiet amp would be desirable for the tweeter horns. As good as the Jubilee is for bass, it rolls off at 38Hz and I would like to go lower. Changes: I am going to try a three way system. I have committed to buy an ampsandsound.com Stereo 15 amp from Justin Weber. He and I talked on the phone at length and given my preference for rock, blues, pop, classical and jazz, he believed the push pull 15 watt tube amp would be a good match. If its as dead quiet as he claims (no real reason to doubt him) It will take the place of the Manley. I have also purchased two complete kits to build a pair of the 25Hz tapped horns https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138019-25hz-tapped-horn/ . I want to try and go three way with the tapped horns as subs and thus my need to decide the following: Question: Do I use the Manley or the AVA for the tapped horns and the other for the Jubilee clones? If I had a Manley and it was too noisy I'd be pissed. I've used six different tube amps on my Jubilees and none of them were noisy. I biamp most of the time and still haven't had that issue. However I did have noise when I was using actives. I have passives built by Bob that were designed by Roy. They have the low end eq boost. I have no need for subs which is good because I've only heard two that I've liked. Hmmmm. "Low end EQ Boost from a PASSIVE network." And without batteries to boot. Must be magic or really, really, advanced science. I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of. No magic just a brilliant designer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of.As I am sure you are aware quiet amps are the key to avoiding noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Too much gain. What does "fast" sound like? I normally associate that with a lack of lower bass. The passive is Roy's low pass design with Bob's high pass for the HF200. The high pass looks like 12dB/octave. I don't want to come off like the crossover police because I have no horse in this race, but the passives, along with the Zobel for the TAD and the EQ for the low pass are proprietary, and Roy does not want them given out or posted on the forum. The original, first passive design is out here, but I'm pretty sure that's all. Dean, So the one that was the original, posted on here was specific to the K69? Is that correct? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Too much gain. What does "fast" sound like? I normally associate that with a lack of lower bass. The passive is Roy's low pass design with Bob's high pass for the HF200. The high pass looks like 12dB/octave. I don't want to come off like the crossover police because I have no horse in this race, but the passives, along with the Zobel for the TAD and the EQ for the low pass are proprietary, and Roy does not want them given out or posted on the forum. The original, first passive design is out here, but I'm pretty sure that's all. If Roy does not want them given out how can we get some made ? Will Roy build them ? Or will Klipsch sell them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Too much gain. What does "fast" sound like? I normally associate that with a lack of lower bass. The passive is Roy's low pass design with Bob's high pass for the HF200. The high pass looks like 12dB/octave. I don't want to come off like the crossover police because I have no horse in this race, but the passives, along with the Zobel for the TAD and the EQ for the low pass are proprietary, and Roy does not want them given out or posted on the forum. The original, first passive design is out here, but I'm pretty sure that's all. If Roy does not want them given out how can we get some made ? Will Roy build them ? Or will Klipsch sell them ? Bump Anyone..... Where is Roy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) After fooling with active systems for a few years now my #1 recommendation is to ONLY use amplifiers that have gain controls. Especially in a home environment you will only need to open the gains a small amount more than likely. The last thing you want is an unattenuated amp hissing away at full blast and no way to turn it down or to control your gain structure. Ideally, you would have the same amps on most or all channels. Seriously, with gain controls on your amps you will find you can take most of the gain up front via your source and/or preamp, hit the processor with its minimum requirement (or more) to be sure you get full resolution through the processor, and take the MINIMUM gain needed at the amps. This will make your system quiet. You can also use the gains to balance your channels rather than have one channel in the processor at -8db to equalize the top and bottom sections. Once I figured these simple things out, I had a much quieter and more dynamic system. Made a big difference. I think that everyone who "goes active" needs to experiince the whole thing for the themselves to figure it out and what works best for their application..........but a few tips can save you a lot of headaches. Just trying to help. Edited February 4, 2014 by mark1101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hmmmm. "Low end EQ Boost from a PASSIVE network." And without batteries to boot. Must be magic or really, really, advanced science. I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of. No magic just a brilliant designer. You missed my point. Passives can only cut energy, not boost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hmmmm. "Low end EQ Boost from a PASSIVE network." And without batteries to boot. Must be magic or really, really, advanced science. I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of. No magic just a brilliant designer. You missed my point. Passives can only cut energy, not boost it. Actually I may have been wrong about the boost in my passives. I'll have to double check. It could be my misconception of the massive passives. After thinking about it I think the boost came later. Oops my bad. Perhaps easier with custom line level passives. I'll be trying that at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 After fooling with active systems for a few years now my #1 recommendation is to ONLY use amplifiers that have gain controls. Especially in a home environment you will only need to open the gains a small amount more than likely. The last thing you want is an unattenuated amp hissing away at full blast and no way to turn it down or to control your gain structure. Ideally, you would have the same amps on most or all channels. Seriously, with gain controls on your amps you will find you can take most of the gain up front via your source and/or preamp, hit the processor with its minimum requirement (or more) to be sure you get full resolution through the processor, and take the MINIMUM gain needed at the amps. This will make your system quiet. You can also use the gains to balance your channels rather than have one channel in the processor at -8db to equalize the top and bottom sections. Once I figured these simple things out, I had a much quieter and more dynamic system. Made a big difference. I think that everyone who "goes active" needs to experiince the whole thing for the themselves to figure it out and what works best for their application..........but a few tips can save you a lot of headaches. Just trying to help. ^^^ This ^^^ I've played my system with the gains typically at (guessing) 25% of max. I've had them at "one click" which is the lowest detent they will go. System is dead quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hmmmm. "Low end EQ Boost from a PASSIVE network." And without batteries to boot. Must be magic or really, really, advanced science. I'm about to go active shortly, so I hope I don't experience the noise you speak of. No magic just a brilliant designer. You missed my point. Passives can only cut energy, not boost it. The only "lo end boost" I read about was in the settings for the EV DX38. Maybe this was for the passives with the 9 volt battery ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 "Once I figured these simple things out, I had a much quieter and more dynamic system. Made a big difference. I think that everyone who "goes active" needs to experiince the whole thing for the themselves to figure it out and what works best for their application..........but a few tips can save you a lot of headaches. Just trying to help." Well said Mark, & excellent advise. I remember on first firing up the Jubs I was not so sure that I had not made a mistake with the purchase, but after some help from forum members & making a few adjustments the sound went from o-no to wow!!! Have never looked back since, but at some point would like to try a passive xover Braccurie, I dont use subs but wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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