001 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) hi. i just bought a pair of 1995 vintage k-horns & have a few questions on getting the best performance from them. they are all original with no mods, so far. they have the ak-3 x-overs & k55-m mid drivers. the original paperwork mentions some backer boards that i think are already installed, but it mentions a neoprene seal that helps the backs of the speaker seal to the walls. that is missing, so what is the best way to seal these to the walls? some kind of foam or rubber strips i assume? anyone have pictures of the original seals installed? after about 1 hour of listening & resolving a loose main wire to the tops i am impressed by their shear volume & they sound pretty good but i am noticing a overpowering midrange, dare i say somewhat harsh. i have heard that term before about the mids. the highs sound nice. what is an "easy" way to help calm the mids a bit? if that is possible to do without major upgrades or mods. any other tips or tricks or room mods owners of these have used to make them sound even better would be appreciated. they are hooked up to mid-level components right now, but i have a little better quality amps i want to try. nothing exotic. i will post another topic in the 2-ch section for suggestions on how to use the components i have now. Edited January 31, 2014 by klipschfancf4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You can use plain ole pipe insulation foam......could be you need to refresh the Caps. in the crossover. Also seal the horizontal board at top of bass been to wall to. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 thanks, can you elaborate on how to use pipe insulation? i'm hoping the caps are ok as these arent 20 years old & have minimal useage over the last 5-7 years. bob crites says the ak-3 x-over uses good caps & should be ok for at least 20 years, so i will try some more basic stuff before i get into that. as for sealing them to the walls, thats kind of what im asking in the original post... how do i seal them? they dont have the original neoprene strips i mentioned so what is the best option to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It is 2014... Congrats on the new speakers. 20 years old is nothing and you can wait on the crossovers, not a big deal and if you like the way they sound don't worry. Just put the pipe insulation on the ends of the wood that touch the wall. Edited January 31, 2014 by tigerwoodKhorns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hey crossover gurus, i am not familiar with the ak-3 crossover. Does it have any autoformer tap adjustments available to help out the OP? babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It is 2014... yes it is, 2014 - 1995 = less than 20 years. caps should be fine. so use the pipe insulation to seal the backs tro the walls? where exactly do i put it on the backs? the side panels with the grille material is what touches my walls, or do i want to have the backer board seal to the wall? also any basic tricks for calming down the mids a bit? can anyone post some pics of where to seal them? or maybe i can post pics of what mine look like on the rears. Edited January 31, 2014 by klipschfancf4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It is 2014... yes it is, 2014 - 1995 = less than 20 years. caps should be fine. OK, but January of 2015, you're screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It is 2014... yes it is, 2014 - 1995 = less than 20 years. caps should be fine. so use the pipe insulation to seal the backs tro the walls? where exactly do i put it on the backs? the side panels with the grille material is what touches my walls, or do i want to have the backer board seal to the wall? also any basic tricks for calming down the mids a bit? can anyone post some pics of where to seal them? or maybe i can post pics of what mine look like on the rears. I have a set of 1989 AK-2 networks which the mid is 2db less than the AK-3's. The 2's are toned down a bit more, but I need AK-3's to match the AL-3's in my LaScalas. If interested we could swap top networks and bottom caps or just top networks. Where to add the pipe insulation These are not mine, but a good photo where to add the foam Edited January 31, 2014 by Max2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) You also should seal the horz. part of the bass bin... 1 inch.pipe foam is easy it is split so just put over the edges. Rick Edited January 31, 2014 by ricktate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) OK, but January of 2015, you're screwed. not if they are late 95's? i'm sure its not like once you hit 20 years they stop working or instantly go to crap. should be fine. i have 1989 forte 1's that sound excellent. caps & x-overs will be the last concern. thanks for the diagrams & pics, the pipe foam should be simple enough to get them to seal better. so i assume the vertical side boards with the grill material isnt what i want to seal/touch the wall? with the pipe foam on the backer board, that area & the sides of the tops wont actually touch the wall? which is good because when i push them all the way back it marks up the wall. max2: thanks for the offer on the x-over trade, my ak-3's are all soldered connections, not push on connectors, so swapping them might be more of a hassle than its worth if they are ok, but i will consider that afer awhile of playing with the speakers a bit. but if the 20 year things is true... your 1989 ak-2 x-overs are shot! thanks again for the help guys! Edited January 31, 2014 by klipschfancf4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It is 2014...... the backer board seal to the wall? also any basic tricks for calming down the mids a bit? The backer board (Klipsch calls it the tail board) -- the rearmost board that runs the entire height of the bass chamber (bass "bin") is what to seal. Pipe insulation (hardwood store). Be sure the Khorn is pushed against the corner as hard as it will go. On the mids, be sure to listen with a very wide variety of disks and types of music before you change anything. A good number of CDs are very poorly recorded, and Khorns will reveal every flaw, but you will want the clarity for good recordings. SACDs, DVD-As, and Blu-rays tend to sound better, but whether it's the medium or the care in recording/mastering something the mixers know will go out to audiophiles is not really known. My Khorns don't really have a midrange peak, as measured by REW, but a long broad dip in the midrange is followed by a shorter rise, then a roll off. To "pad down" my midrange by ordinary means would lower the short rise, but further depress the long broad dip. A lot depends on the reflections in the room. Years ago, I tried a "good" equalizer, and the results were terrible. We put up absorbers at the first reflection points, a wall to wall carpet, and, to keep the room from becoming too dead, and increase spatiality, my wife built me 7 hardwood diffusers (incidentally, she loves the look and sound of Khorns). Then, we added Audyssey, which resulted in a curve that is pretty flat from about 700 to 8K (+/- about 2.4 dB). Below 700 there are some hills and valleys, but we got rid of those (see below). Above 8K, we have a choice between Audyssey Reference (about -2 dB at 10K and about -6 dB at 16K with our Khorns) and Audyssey Flat (smooth to ~~~ 16K, depending where you move your head). Some recordings sound best with one of these, and others with the other. We used the true tone controls on the pre/pro to elevate the bass, because we agree with the Harmon research that indicates that elevated bass sounds "flat," while true flat does not (we did not use the virtual sliders, because they will turn off Audyssey). Now our system sounds great, better than at any friend's house, and better than at most movie theaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 "my ak-3's are all soldered connections" Surely not where the tops connect to the bass horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 OK, but January of 2015, you're screwed. not if they are late 95's? i'm sure its not like once you hit 20 years they stop working or instantly go to crap. should be fine. i have 1989 forte 1's that sound excellent. caps & x-overs will be the last concern. thanks for the diagrams & pics, the pipe foam should be simple enough to get them to seal better. so i assume the vertical side boards with the grill material isnt what i want to seal/touch the wall? with the pipe foam on the backer board, that area & the sides of the tops wont actually touch the wall? which is good because when i push them all the way back it marks up the wall. max2: thanks for the offer on the x-over trade, my ak-3's are all soldered connections, not push on connectors, so swapping them might be more of a hassle than its worth if they are ok, but i will consider that afer awhile of playing with the speakers a bit. but if the 20 year things is true... your 1989 ak-2 x-overs are shot! thanis again for the help guys! I swapped the caps in my '92 LaScalas two years ago with Sonicaps and couldn't hear any difference. Now, Im obviously not saying caps don't go bad, but I am saying many people jump to change them only to find out they really didn't need to. There will always be some measurable differences in caps from batches, age, brand etc, but Bob, Dean or Al would be the Guru's to hit on this topic. Don't get me wrong though, IMO, every set of K-horns deserve a network with fresh caps. The caps are easy to swap and anyone that can hold a soldering iron can get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) "my ak-3's are all soldered connections" Surely not where the tops connect to the bass horn? Everything is soldered except the bannana jumpers that go from the top network down to the bass bin, unless they have been modified. Well I guess I just repeated what you said Edited January 31, 2014 by Max2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It is 2014...... the backer board seal to the wall? also any basic tricks for calming down the mids a bit? The backer board (Klipsch calls it the tail board) -- the rearmost board that runs the entire height of the bass chamber (bass "bin") is what to seal. Pipe insulation (hardwood store). Be sure the Khorn is pushed against the corner as hard as it will go. On the mids, be sure to listen with a very wide variety of disks and types of music before you change anything. A good number of CDs are very poorly recorded, and Khorns will reveal every flaw, but you will want the clarity for good recordings. SACDs, DVD-As, and Blu-rays tend to sound better, but whether it's the medium or the care in recording/mastering something the mixers know will go out to audiophiles is not really known. My Khorns don't really have a midrange peak, as measured by REW, but a long broad dip in the midrange is followed by a shorter rise, then a roll off. To "pad down" my midrange by ordinary means would lower the short rise, but further depress the long broad dip. A lot depends on the reflections in the room. Years ago, I tried a "good" equalizer, and the results were terrible. We put up absorbers at the first reflection points, a wall to wall carpet, and, to keep the room from becoming too dead, and increase spatiality, my wife built me 7 hardwood diffusers (incidentally, she loves the look and sound of Khorns). Then, we added Audyssey, which resulted in a curve that is pretty flat from about 700 to 8K (+/- about 2.4 dB). Below 700 there are some hills and valleys, but we got rid of those (see below). Above 8K, we have a choice between Audyssey Reference (about -2 dB at 10K and about -6 dB at 16K with our Khorns) and Audyssey Flat (smooth to ~~~ 16K, depending where you move your head). Some recordings sound best with one of these, and others with the other. We used the true tone controls on the pre/pro to elevate the bass, because we agree with the Harmon research that indicates that elevated bass sounds "flat," while true flat does not (we did not use the virtual sliders, because they will turn off Audyssey). Now our system sounds great, better than at any friend's house, and better than at most movie theaters. Wow. You have a very cool wife! I always used Audyssey with my LaScala's when I had them as the Front mains to help with Bass a little. This did make the top end a little too sharp with decent volume. Since I have re-run the room correction with my K-horns as the mains, I have found that I like the direct source without the correction. I do enjoy Audyssey at very low listening levels, but without any adjustment with Audyssey on my end, it just adds too much coloration for my taste. My room is kind of jacked up with a lot of furniture though, that doesn't help matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) yes all but the bannana plugs that connect the tops to the bass bins are soldered. im good with soldering so thats not an issue, but like you said, i dont want to change the caps/x-overs just yet, they sound ok. im just getting used to how big the k-horns are in my smaller basement. its a perfect rectangle with nice corners but a low ceiling. room is 25x13, ceiling is a drop style with panels about 7' 6". my couch is about 12' from the speakers. so they are very close together & just seem overwhelming at higher volumes. im sure the recordings are a lot of it, some stuff sounds good other stuff is kinda harsh up loud. im used to my fortes, epcis & kg5.5's i guess. i will be posting my components in another thread soon. looking for suggestions on the best way to run the k-horns. thanks! Edited February 2, 2014 by klipschfancf4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hey crossover gurus, i am not familiar with the ak-3 crossover. Does it have any autoformer tap adjustments available to help out the OP? babadono figured i'd try this here before posting a new topic... can anyone confirm if the ak-3's are adjustable at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 There is a coil in parallel with squawker, and I don't know what happens to the response with that coil in place if some of the more popular mods are applied (like dropping down a tap and changing the value of the primary cap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 any ideas where i could confirm that? sure would be nice to tone down the squaker a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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