WMcD Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I don't see anything wrong with limiting topics to those for which the forum was created. Klipsch specifically and audio and music in general. Those are also the reasons why people visit us all here. These topics are a bit of escapism for me. I can get the noise of the world, or the marketplace of ideas elsewhere, if I want. Hobbiest magazines, or any specialized serial publication follow the same paradime. You don't find politics and religion in, say, Sound and Vision or Car and Driver, or JAMA. The publishers couldn't sell them if there was interjection of articles on those issues, and I wouldn't buy them; even if the publishers recommended to just ignore the stuff on constitutional, religious diatribe. The seed of the post which started all this was not an invitation to intellectual discourse, not that it belongs here in any tone. Rather, it was calculated to be inflamatory, accusing the U.S. Court of Appeals of 1) restricting religious rights because 2) they are homosexuals. The mind reels. This is type of things one hears in the local bar near closing hour. It really has no place in our happy Klipsch, musical home. We should not have risen to the bait. So, I say, keep to the subject of the forum. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 07-16-2002 at 10:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I have learned two things through these threads: 1)People respond emotionally all too frequently based on what they think they read and 2)Not many read very well or thoroughly and focus very narrowly. I missed the part where kenratboy said the court voted that way because they were homosexuals. I read a statement where any derogatory adjective could have been substituted for the word so many have objected too. kenrat boy was not concerned with sexuality but with stupidity and while the word choice was poor, it shouldn't have been the end of the world or the focus of so many posts. How many would have objected if he used the word 'mfer' or dumbasses or s...heads? Someone I am sure. Words by themselves have no context and must be misconstrued by humans to be hate words. We have become so politically correct and are SO worried about possibly offendeding, accused of offending, or being offended that we have assigned hate to all kinds of words. Worse is we have given those words power over ourselves. It is pitiful really. Where is George Carlin when you need him? ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 quote: Words by themselves have no context and must be misconstrued by humans to be hate words. We have become so politically correct and are SO worried about possibly offendeding, accused of offending, or being offended that we have assigned hate to all kinds of words. Worse is we have given those words power over ourselves. It is pitiful really. Wrong!!s>c> The casual use and misuse of derogatory terms serves to legitimize the actions and hatred that are implicit in those words. The fact that someone says I just want to use a shock word to get people's attention does not change the fact that they are at the same time reinforcing the prejudices of some others that actually do hate. Have you never stopped to consider why the demonisation of the enemy is practised so enthusiastically and frequently by governments,hate groups and military establishments ? Simply because it is easier to convince a soldier to kill a G**k or a Sp*ck or a Commie or a Yank than to kill a man. This works because in addition to lessening the aversion most have to killing a fellow human being it adds the additional motivation of eliminating something that is less than human. I once read of an accused who stated to police that he and his 2 pals didn't mean any real harm when they roughed up an "old fa**ot" outside a bar. The "old fa**ot" died later that day. I wonder if they would have been so casual about roughing up an old man. The word fa**ot did not cause the attack but the attitudes and stereotypes surrounding the term may well have contributed to the savagery,(and permissibility) of the assault. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.1900) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 quote: Wrong!c> Actually, you made my point better than I could. The very act of being unable to type "******" indicates the word has power over you and is misconstrued. ******: 1. A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together. 2. A bundle of pieces of iron or steel to be welded or hammered into bars Should we also take out of the English language the words: ***(1. noun - A student at a British public school who is required to perform menial tasks for a student in a higher class. 2. noun - A drudge. 3. verb - To work to exhaustion; toil), fairy(I will not provide the definitions for every possible word), pansy, queer, poof, poove, gay, etc. All because people have used them to refer to homosexuals? Any and every word could be miscontrued and used to have a meaning that is derogatory. As an extreme example and no offense intended, if I started calling homosexuals 'lynn' in everyday conversation and it caught on and others started using it and it continued to grow, would you change your name? Pretty damn silly if you ask me (and you're not.) Would lynn then be a 'bad' word that needed to be typed l**n? BTW, last I checked, **** was a thick messy substance, such as sludge, and ***** meant completely new and clean. These apparently are additional words you would have removed from our vocabulary as you were unable to type them as well. Where does it end - when we are conversing like troglodytes once again? It is sad enough that the educational system and sociery has fostered a population that is growing more limited in their ability to communicate effectively each day due to limited vocabulary and fear. I think it likely 18th century commoners had more command of the English language than our "educated" people do today. Hell, you can't say "pot calling the kettle black' without someone taking offense. ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 This message has been edited by crash827 on 07-17-2002 at 01:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 You can argue the point as much as you wish but the fact remains that the use terms such as fa**ot in the context it was used in Kenratboy's thread is improper. As to whether the words G**K,Fa**ot, etc. have some sort of mystical power over me - Nonsense! It is not fear that causes me not to publish that language in public - Just simple good manners. In any event that is the last I have to say on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I recently made the mistake of referring to an oft used procedure as "rule of thumb" in a college math class, as in "the rule of thumb in this situation is to do this." I got an earful for that one, since it is now my understanding that "rule of thumb" originated from men abusing women "back in the day". I've been wondering ever since if we have just gotten too sensitive. I meant no harm by the phrase - and I do not use terms that are deemed to be derogatory to anyone. I never intended any harm - but I'm wondering how far this "Political Correctness" goes in order to be considered a kind, righteous, and respected citizen in our society. I swore I would stay out of these threads, but I really did wonder about this - just thought I would share my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Words are vehicles of thought, and we cannot understand the thought unless we first understand the meaning of the words. People have become sloppy and lazy with the English language, and it's no wonder we don't know what the hell anyone is saying anymore. I would agree that the meaning of words, phrases, and certain verbiage, can change meaning and/or application over time. The word "******" has definitely changed in it's meaning and application, and this needs to be considered. Personally, I think we can now do without that word. I don't agree that words by themselves have no meaning without context, for many times the definition of a word creates it's own context. That is, nothing really has to be in front of it, or behind it -- to gather it's meaning.f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I didn't say words don't have a meaning without context. I said words have no context by themselves and must be miscontrued by humans to be hate words. Queer. Please tell me how, by itself, this could be construed as a hate word. ONLY if you yourself attach a meaning or context to it, does it become a hate word. He's a queer fellow. PC types would immediately be offended I called someone a homosexual while those not brainwashed by PC would realize I was pointing out his strange habits. Then again, 'strange' might not be politically correct if we keep searching for reasons to not offend. I am sure those in the iron and steel industries would disagree with eliminating that "fa**ot" word. I do, however, agree it would have been best if kenrat had not used it in his title where it was far too easy for so many to miscontrue its meaning and take offense unreasonably. He should of just said 'liberal morons' but then the liberals and morons would have been offended. ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 This message has been edited by crash827 on 07-17-2002 at 05:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 There are I think, two issues. The first, mine, is that political issues are not the proper subject matter on this forum. KRB injected such things. It is not appropriate. That goes to say regardless of the vocabulary used. Even if the most carefully chosen words are used, like something one would read in a law review article from Harvard, we are not that market place of ideas. If such foreign subject matters are to be discussed, here or anywhere, the second issue seem to be political correctness. Given the context of the written words, are they impolite, offensive, accusatory, and inflamatory? Okay, you say anyone can affect offense and get on a soap box. Now this requires a fine appeciation of the context and the range of the audience. However this is true in all things. It is somewhat disingenuous to seek an innocent construction of the use of the term ****** in the context. I lose track of one G or two, but you see the problem. Why even go there? Now, perhaps KRB just meant it as a general maladiction without sexual lifestyle content. But if so, what are such maladictions doing on our forum? Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric D Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I was just checking this and the "other" thread before I leave on vacation and thought quote might be of interest. Not aimed at anyone in specific - just for consideration in the general discussion. "Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excess wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naïve, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best." -- Robert Heinlein Have a good weekend, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 The best post of the week.f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Nice post Gil. I agree with the sentiment we should avoid personal insults (particularly when they are crass and require little wit to employ) and am glad you recognize kenrat's use of the word was simply a malediction. I do not believe it is appropriate to use the forum to denigrate our fellow forum members or any particular group of people - ok, maybe politicians from time to time. We shall have to agree to disagree on whether 'outside' posts should be on the forum. There has been a proliferation of them recently and I believe it will die out. We can then resume going off-topic within threads. ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I get concerned with people that say we do not want to talk "politics" on the Klipsch site. The people I know outside of the forum that buy Klipsch and myself have vast discusssions outside of audio. Politicians prefer we never talk about politics in person, on the telephone, or on a WEB site. "People who think less and talk less make better sheep and more easily acquiesse to the whims of the intelligencia." Fredrick Schopp 1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 " I don't think any whackos have hijacked the board or anything, and on the other scale, there have been some truly phenomenal posts by many of you that have been a true delight to enjoy." Didnt Hitler say the same thing in the Polish Social Chat meetings in 1939? ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Not surprised that you would be up on the fine points of your hero Hitler's history, either that or you are making up the usual bullshit out of a steady diet of right wing idiot radio sound bites. How come you never present any articulate arguments for your socalled positions? Then again, you did say something about Americans being dumbed down to the max.....guess you are the poster boy. -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 07-20-2002 at 03:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Can't we let this crap take a rest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 21, 2002 Share Posted July 21, 2002 cerebrum-clipped&shorn LOL My record speaks for itself. You sound like nothing but an ignorant libby parrot who thinks he is Tom Hayden but sounds more like Paulie Shore. Stupid commie. HAHAHA ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k2dx Posted July 21, 2002 Share Posted July 21, 2002 Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 21, 2002 Share Posted July 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by forresthump2: cerebrum-clipped&shorn LOL My record speaks for itself. You sound like nothing but an ignorant libby parrot who thinks he is Tom Hayden but sounds more like Paulie Shore. Stupid commie. HAHAHA I know you are, but what am I? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vavoline Posted July 21, 2002 Share Posted July 21, 2002 If you good folks will commit to not paying any attention to crap unless you step in it, then watch where you step, this BB would be a better and more enjoyable place to visit. I.E.... ignore the crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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