Chorus II Upgrades

[BMWM5]

I recently purchased a pair of Chorus II's in Oiled Oak. I fell in love with the speakers the second I heard them.

I replaced the OEM tweeter diaphragms w/Crites Titanium. I noticed a less harsh, more defined and smoother sound.

I'd like to replace the mid-range squaker diaphragm & the OEM crossover w/Crites and have a few questions.

I. Will I get the same results with a crossover upgrade in the mid-range as I did with the tweeter?

II. What exact components come with the Crites repair kit and is it a simple job to swap them out? I have a soldering

iron & solder sucker.

III. Can the parts Crites sell be found through an internet provider at a lower cost? If so which parts do I need and

where can I get them.

IV. I'd like to replace the OEM cheap wires with some good 14 gauge copper wire. Once I remove the old wires, can I

drill out the holes to make them wider so I can accommodate the thicker gauge wire without damaging the contact

on the board?

V. I know Crites includes 16ga copper wire with his complete crossover unit at $235.00. Am I better off just purchasing

the entire crossover.

I replaced the OEM crossover on my other pair of K-Horns (1985) and noticed a huge difference in sound. I'm hoping to

replicate that with the Chorus II's.

Thank you. I would appreciate any input from fellow members.

BMWM5

[minermark]

It's up to you weather you figure your investment is worth a solid investment for the future.

When I purchased my Scalas the research started, I went with Crites, but there are a couple more on this forum that deserve looking at.

Im sure they will be Chiming in before long. My Crites were $350 and change, I just figured after 30+ years the Scalas deserved the upgrade.

And I figured id be getting more speakers as time goes on, but I want something to listen to in the Cave/Lab wile playing around with other stuff.

[moray james]

PWK said it best when he said "the magic lives in the midrange" nothing wrong with the 16 gage wire Klipsch use just twist it into pairs. larger gage is not going to buy you anything at these short lengths your DCR is already very low with 16 gage. larger heavier wires bring along physical issues at the connections and they tend to make things worse not better in that respect. the biggest part change improvement after inductor upgrade is a titanium mid diaphragm. Best regards Moray James.

[Deang]

I'd like to know where this mystical titanium midrange diaphragm is that everyone keeps talking about - link please.

So, tell us about inductors.

[BEC]

I'd like to know where this mystical titanium midrange diaphragm is that everyone keeps talking about - link please.

So, tell us about inductors.

That is the titanium midrange diaphragm for the Heresy III and the Cornwall III and some of the Klipsch Pro speakers made before those. This Ti diaphragm goes higher than the original phenolic, so is always used with a midrange bandpass circuit in the crossovers that use it from the factory. Most that have this diaphragm have tricked or misled Klipsch Parts into selling it to them. This diaphragm will fit fine replacing the stock phenolics in the Forte, Chorus, Heresy II, Cornwall II, KLF20 and 30, but what you get is the midrange at full output all the way to 7khz and the tweeter at full output also by that frequency. Gives a big nasty peak at 6 to 7Khz when you look at the acoustic output.

Of course a bandpass circuit can be added to the existing crossover getting by that problem. What people need to understand however, is that a significant number of people have managed to get the titanium midrange diaphragms, discovered that they sound terrible and installed a bandpass circuit. That made some happy, but not everyone. Some then go back to the original phenolic diaphragm. I don't know what percentage this is of those who have tried them and ended up going back to original, but it is a significant number. You would never know that from reading the forums because seems people who like them are much "louder" on forums than those who do not like them.

Bob Crites

[moray james]

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

[Deang]

I was being facetious.

Of course they fail to mention the fact that a crossover circuit may be designed around an inductor with a high DCR. Some around here spend a lot of money on gigantic air cores without having any idea whatsoever what the impact on the circuit will be. We are told, "I noticed a difference", well, of course you did.

Rebuilding a crossover or repairing one is not the same as designing and building one from scratch. Most of the vintage stuff used the small gauge inductors to tune the circuit.

[BMWM5]

Thanks for all the kind responses, but can anyone specifically answer questions II, III & IV?

[moray james]

you can see two different sets of Klipsch I braced one was a quick and dirty but effective job on a set of KLF20 (also flipped the vents from the rear to the front baffle) for my daughter and the other a much better job on a set of Quartet. You can also see the high density fiberglass damping which was installed into the Quartet. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20&page=3

PS:

II. What exact components come with the Crites repair kit and is it a simple job to swap them out? I have a soldering

iron & solder sucker.

Bob changes the capacitors. Bob can also sell you higher power rated auto transformers if you want them. If you have to ask if changing the capacitors is a difficult job and can't find the correct parts you probably should leave it alone and have Bob do the job.

III. Can the parts Crites sell be found through an internet provider at a lower cost? If so which parts do I need and

where can I get them.

You can find a lot of things on line if you look and you can deal with a lot of different kinds of people too. If you want to get a fair price and want to deal with a first class individual who knows what he is doing and who is willing to help you all the way then Bob is you man and the best deal there is. I think that more than makes up for the few bucks that you might save somewhere else.

IV. I'd like to replace the OEM cheap wires with some good 14 gauge copper wire. Once I remove the old wires, can I

drill out the holes to make them wider so I can accommodate the thicker gauge wire without damaging the contact

on the board?

I would suggest for a second time that you leave the stock wires which are good alone as that is nothing more than a make work project that will buy you very little or no difference and may only open up a can of worms. Twist the wires that are there into pairs and solder the connectors onto the wires re flow the wire connections on the crossover board. Move on to other modifications which will improve your speakers.

Edited March 20, 2014 by moray james

[oldred]

I did tweeter and midrange diaphragms and crossovers all bought from Bob...Glad I spent the money

Edited March 21, 2014 by oldred

[ClaudeJ1]

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

Boy, talk about getting a PREMIUM price for magnet wire, geez. This is in the $15,000 speaker cable category.

[ClaudeJ1]

I was being facetious.

Of course they fail to mention the fact that a crossover circuit may be designed around an inductor with a high DCR. Some around here spend a lot of money on gigantic air cores without having any idea whatsoever what the impact on the circuit will be. We are told, "I noticed a difference", well, of course you did.

Rebuilding a crossover or repairing one is not the same as designing and building one from scratch. Most of the vintage stuff used the small gauge inductors to tune the circuit.

I remember Nelson pass wrote an article years ago about speaker wire. For one particular speaker, the #24 AWG was the best because it isolated the amp from some Xover nasties in the speaker, which otherwise was a hugely reactive load that tripped protection circuitry. Everything affects everything else in audio. At times it is imperceptible but as things approach the grossness of room anomalies, they had better be audible.

Edited March 21, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[Sancho Panza]

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

Boy, talk about getting a PREMIUM price for magnet wire, geez. This is in the $15,000 speaker cable category.

Better only give me 4, then.

[BMWM5]

I can't believe this. I've gotten 12 replays to my questions and not one specific answer.

Lots of comments but no answers.

Probably going to take oldred's advise and purchase the Crites mid-range & crossover. I already have the titanium tweeters which sound great.

Thanks.

[jason str]

Update the caps in the crossover and leave stuff alone if it sounds good.

Wire upgrades wont help.

Buy the Crites kit if you can handle the task if not let him do the work.

If you feel the need to change the midrange diaphragm do it, it can always be changed back if you're not happy.

[beeker]

I would take it slowly with your upgrades. Call bob crites directly and he will help you. Crites midrange diaphragm is a replacement not an upgrade. If you want the titanium upgrade you should check with klipsch directly. Not knowing the year of your chorus ii i cant say whether i would replace or upgrade your crossovers yet. I suggest waiting 20 years because the chorus ii networks last at least 20 years depending on how they have been used.

The next upgrade is to build supports in the chorus ii cabinet to make them more stable. If you do not run more than 200 watts on each of them you may not get a whole lot of superior sound although at any power level they will perform structurally more sound. Next make sure around the outside edge of the inner cab use good material to also support supreme acoustical integrity. If you really want to do this big i suggest seperating all 3 drivers accordingly and that will bring a percentage of quality up as well and can be done while building the cabinet supports. I sometimes run my top secret lol chorus ii with a 440x2 solid state amp and have a lot of fun with them. For the past 2 months they have been with my favorite valve amp. There is one more upgrade i have yet to try. That person who holds the understanding to it would have to offer to you his help. Owe and there a lot more you can try although they are top secret and i have no idea what was done because i wasnt allowed to watch. The best of luck to you. A little at a time is best for various reasons. All in my opinion

edit:a topy

Edited March 21, 2014 by beeker

[jaz3842]

New to the forum but have owned many Klipsch speakers since the 1970s. I have a pair of Chorus II speakers I bought new 30 years ago. They have been safely stored in the original boxes for about 15 years. Physically they are in excellent condition with no apparent cabinet or speaker degradation. Crossover component replacement seems to be one of the more common repairs done to these and was wondering how you know when it is needed? Is it an audible symptom, a deterioration of components or some combination that determines it is neccessary? Any feedback would be most appreciated.

Edited December 29, 2019 by jaz3842

[OO1]

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[moray james]

On 3/19/2014 at 3:27 AM, BMWM5 said:

I recently purchased a pair of Chorus II's in Oiled Oak. I fell in love with the speakers the second I heard them.

I replaced the OEM tweeter diaphragms w/Crites Titanium. I noticed a less harsh, more defined and smoother sound.

I'd like to replace the mid-range squaker diaphragm & the OEM crossover w/Crites and have a few questions.

I. Will I get the same results with a crossover upgrade in the mid-range as I did with the tweeter?

II. What exact components come with the Crites repair kit and is it a simple job to swap them out? I have a soldering

iron & solder sucker.

III. Can the parts Crites sell be found through an internet provider at a lower cost? If so which parts do I need and

where can I get them.

IV. I'd like to replace the OEM cheap wires with some good 14 gauge copper wire. Once I remove the old wires, can I

drill out the holes to make them wider so I can accommodate the thicker gauge wire without damaging the contact

on the board?

V. I know Crites includes 16ga copper wire with his complete crossover unit at $235.00. Am I better off just purchasing

the entire crossover.

I replaced the OEM crossover on my other pair of K-Horns (1985) and noticed a huge difference in sound. I'm hoping to

replicate that with the Chorus II's.

Thank you. I would appreciate any input from fellow members.

BMWM5

Bob does not offer a ti mid diaphragm but his phenolic mid diaphragm is to me better sounding than the factory phenolic unit. Klipsch do have  the only ti mid diaphragm which is available from and only from Simply speakers this is the Factory part. IMO this takes these speakers to a whole new level not possible with phenolic units. I have installed a good number of the ti mid diaphragms and I see no need to modify the network but some will argue it needs to be modified. I suggest you drop in the ti mid diaphragm play the heck out of it for 2 -3 months and evaluate them you can always include the network mod if you think you need to after the fact. I think that the mids makes the largest single improvement that you can make.

I would recommend you get a cap kit from Bob or his full network as the parts are of high quality and they are exactly the correct voltage and physical size you need to fit your boards all from one vendor and one shipping charge Bob is the very best person you could be dealing with they simply do not get any better. By the time you shop around and pay multiple shipping charges there is no savings to be had and you may end up paying more. You should also buy at the same time from Bob a new set of rubber ring mid horn/driver gaskets. You should also install all new gaskets on the horns woofers passives and network cups. You should also mark and rotate your woofers and passives 180 degrees to counter sag due to gravity.

Bobs networks are the same schematic as the stock units but he has more spacing and better component orientation as such they will and do sound better than the stock networks. You can sell the stock networks to help offset cost. Most people have very little experience soldering capacitors let Bob do the job get it done right and tested as it is very easy for a little experienced solder to mess up a cap.

I would recommend you stay with a 16 gage wire for the networks You can re install fresh spades and crimp and solder them I like to twist all my hook up wire sets to minimize noise pick up. 16 gage will sound better than 14 gage and they are so short the difference in resistance is not much of an issue.

I hope that this is of assistance. As always YMMV.

 

[pzannucci]

When you fall in love with some thing then want to drastically change it without knowing what the outcome is seems like a non-starter and get many in trouble.  Too many people upgrade just to upgrade, good or bad they stand by it - as Bob explains there is no guaranty.

Stay with phenolic on the mids.  Too many crossover changes and compensation to get around Ti nasties.  Refresh the caps and solder the connections along with the basic things you should always do as @moray james suggests.