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Willne1

Forte II Large or Small in Audyssey

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I have a Denon X4000 with Audyssey XT32 and Forte mains. I have them set at large with the XO set at 60 hz. I have read that they should always be set at small unless they go down to 20 hz. I do have a subwoofer also. What do you guys think?

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try them that way for a week, or, so, then try them as small and crossed at 80, or 60...see which way YOU like best...

remember to set LFE+Main for the way you have them set now...

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Sancho said exactly what I was going to recommend. It's all preference. Some like the sound of large because they sound more full, while others like the sound of small because they say it adds clarity. Try both and let your ears be the judge

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If you have a capable sub, set all the satellites to small. This will decrease the chances of phase issuse with the mains and avoid cancellation issues. Setting the speakers to SMALL mean the avr has full bass management control. Setting the speaker to LARGE means no bass management or quasi-bass management. The setting of Large or Small has nothing to do with the size of the speaker, it is based on the speakers LF extension. Using LFE+Mains result in an overlap of bass around the sub LPF, this can results in boomy bass.

To truely be a large speaker, it should have a 15 in. woofer or two 12 in. woofers. There can be less bass produce when the mains are let to Large. One of the most important things to get good bass in a room is location, location, location of the bass unit. The sub can be optimally placed. It is hard to move the mains around the room. Also with the redirected bass, the sub output should increase. Power management is also a factor, and sending all the bass and LFE to the sub can give the satellites and extra 3-5 db for an enhanced midrange. OK, enough of my yada, yada, yada. :) I still set my RF 7's as small. :huh:

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I have a Denon X4000 with Audyssey XT32 and Forte mains. I have them set at large with the XO set at 60 hz. I have read that they should always be set at small unless they go down to 20 hz. I do have a subwoofer also. What do you guys think?

This is one of those questions that only you can answer. What sounds best to you will be the best way.

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try them that way for a week, or, so, then try them as small and crossed at 80, or 60...see which way YOU like best...

remember to set LFE+Main for the way you have them set now...

Im a big fan of this. Try it one way for a week or longer then change it. You will know right away if its missing something or if its as good or better. This is a perfect example of why a/b different settings or gear right back and forth is flawed imo. We need to learn the sound before we can hear small changes in it. Big changes we can hear right away but these small tweaks need a little more time imo. At least this is how it is for me

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Although the Audyssey people and most other experts recommend "SMALL" and 80 Hz, on the grounds of allowing higher resolution correction of the sub, a little more headroom in your main channels, and less of a chance of phase problems, TRY all settings for a prolonged period each, to see what you prefer. These would include all possible combinations. With "LARGE," LFE + Main will send the soundtrack music to both your main speakers and to the sub, which can probably go lower than your main speakers (even big ones). There may or may not be audible phase cancellation, or uneven response. The LFE will be sent to your sub only, as long as you select "Sub On," which is as it should be. Selecting "LARGE" without LFE + Main may turn your subwoofer off. Put your ear down there and listen.

Now, the regular crossover to the sub (the one that probably should be set at 80 Hz), is different than the LPF for LFE that some AVRs have. Audyssey's founder Chris has stated that he wishes that NO AVR provided this latter choice. LPF for LFE means Low Pass Filter for Low Frequency Effects. The ONLY correct setting for this, if you want to hear what the filmmakers did, is 120 Hz. The filmmakers send LFE up to 120 Hz through your AVR's subwoofer output to the sub.

So, try various combinations, knowing that the Audyssey, THX, and professional standards are: all speakers SMALL, crossovers for Front, Center, and Surround set to 80 Hz (unless Audyssey determines that an even higher crossover should be used), and LPF for LFE (if any) set to 120 Hz.

Edited by Garyrc
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This type of set up question is one of the most asked. They make it harder to get by labeling them large and small i think. It should just be labeled bass management on or off imo.

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Thanks for all the help..seems the consensus is to try it both ways. This will take some time but should be fun :) Wow Derrickdj1 a 15 or two 12's. If that's the case I don't feel so bad setting them as small.

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Here is an interesting tid bit:

Bass frequencies don't take any more power than any other frequencies at the same SPL, but we are much less sensitive to bass frequencies so for a low note to sound/feel as loud as a midrange or high note (until our hearing drops off) it takes much more power. For example, to sound as loud as a 1 kHz tone at 70 dB SPL, a 40 Hz tone must be at 90 dB. That extra 20 dB is 100 times the power! So if your speakers only need 1 W to produce that 70 dB, 1 kHz tone, then a 40 Hz tone requires 100 W to sound as loud. Wow!

Power management of the HT system is vastly overlooked IMHO. Having the Mains not producing the LF means less speaker cone breakup and a more dynamic midrange. In the above example you can clearly seem what is going on with the avr/amp headroom. In general, more headroom is desirable. :)

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I set all my speakers as small.. Even the La Scalas.

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I set all my speakers as small.. Even the La Scalas.

I set all my speakers as large.. Even the La Scalas. ;-)

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I set all my speakers as small.. Even the La Scalas.

I set all my speakers as large.. Even the La Scalas. ;-)

Why? I was told to set all speakers to small to make it easier on your AV and let the subs do what they were meant to do.

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Sounds better to me; all of what you said is true.

Works for me, for now; but I have a Large room & not enough SWerage.

May, or may not work for you, or the OP.

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I set all my speakers as small.. Even the La Scalas.

I set all my speakers as large.. Even the La Scalas. ;-)

Why? I was told to set all speakers to small to make it easier on your AV and let the subs do what they were meant to do.
Try both ways and go with what's best to your ears. No reason not to try. I have tried running lots of different ways and like my fronts set to large. It sounds a bit fuller to my ears. When I run them small even xo at 40hz it still sounds just a tiny bit thinner.
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The forte II will dig down to 32HZ. I had a Velodyne sub for many years, and I left the crossover set at large and about 40HZ or less. Even then I felt it was keeping the forte II from really reaching their potential. I ended up ditching the sub and run just 2.0 for music and video. I'm thinking you will find that the favorable listening position for video will be small and for audio large.

Best regards,

John

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"Large" / "Small" is a confusing name for this setting, it would be better if Large was labeled "Not Using a Subwoofer" and Small was labeled as "Using a Subwoofer" as this is the correct way to use this setting, it has nothing to do with the size of the speakers.

When using a subwoofer the speakers should be set to "Small" and then the appropriate crossover settings should be set for the speakers to best match their capabilities while the lowest bass will be left to the subwoofer

Small = Use subwoofer and crossover setting.

Large = No subwoofer and no crossover setting.

Note: When using "Large" as the setting the low bass crossover is not used at all. The correct setting when using a subwoofer is "Small" and then set a low bass crossover point, how low this crossover point is set is up to the capability of the speakers.

Edited by Rich_Guy
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Not if large sounds better :)

Then you are not setting your crossover correctly or your speakers / sub are not matched correctly.

What the Large / Small setting does is activate a crossover between your sub and speakers. Just as your speakers have built in crossovers to direct sound to your woofer or tweeters (and sometimes midrange speakers), your subwoofer should be the speaker which handles the very lowest sound and setting the speakers to Small turns ON the crossover which directs the lowest sound to the sub.

Using Large with a subwoofer is is sort of the same thing as if you just removed your speakers built in crossover, except this is a crossover for the lowest hz. a crossover between your speaker and subwoofer.

Your settings should be set to Small with the crossover set to be near or just above the lowest hz your speakers woofers can handle, at this point the subwoofer takes over producing the deepest lows which your other speakers cannot produce.

Setting to Large disables the subwoofer / speaker crossover so your speakers are given all signals even ones they either cannot produce or don't produce very well. When using a subwoofer that is correct for your system it should be what handles the very lowest hz.

The correct method is to have properly matched speakers and use crossovers that direct the sound to the proper speaker for correct sound range, setting your speakers to small turns ON the crossover designed for use with a subwoofer and directs the lowest hz there. Again how low this is depends on the speaker and subwoofer capabilities.

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