Mallette Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm with A1UC. MC is just a money pit and audible improvement over a top of the line MM isn't significant. No doubt get a lot of pushback on that, but I can only say what I hear. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I suppose I could help you out and trade my NBS for your VRD's and line stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 You just agreed to buy a very fine table and arm, don't now buy inferior step up devices. If its a ? of money take your time and use MM till the money opens up. A step up can absolutely improve your sound or hurt your sound, it all depends on which you buy. I have used / tried several over the years (so many I cannot remember them all) At the end of that journey I found the Hagerman Trumpet phono pre (hands down best I had heard) as far as step ups go best I had were stevens and billington 103 (similar to those linked above) they are pricey but hold there value and sound wonderful (I never lost a penny on a pair of those) As mentioned above shorter cables mainly worked best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 MC is just a money pit and audible improvement over a top of the line MM isn't significant. I can't disagree a lot, but the character of MC and MM is different and it becomes somewhat a matter of system synergy -- what sounds best with everything else. I myself can't predict that for a given system, but perceive MM's generally to have a bold, full, robust bass vs MCs' slightly leaner, well-defined bass timbre that doesn't necessarily make it better for everyone. JHMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm with A1UC. MC is just a money pit and audible improvement over a top of the line MM isn't significant. No doubt get a lot of pushback on that, but I can only say what I hear. Dave Dave without reading the entire thread I'll just say this, MM has more bass MC has more clarity!!! I have tried both and I am using a med output 1.0mv MC cartridge!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Well assuming the Basis arrives as advertised I will order the 2M Black and see what happens from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) I have always preferred LOMC, but I have heard several good MM and HOMC. On my Basis, one of my favorite reasombly inexpensive catridge is the Grado Statement Sonata LOMC. It is incredibly smooth, detailed, and the bass is excellent. My primary cart is a Lyra Helikon, more detail, but far less forgiving. Currently forum member Justin Webber is road testing the Grado with his VPI. I am running step up I built with Cinemag transformers. Dave Edited May 11, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I have always preferred LOMC, but I have heard several good MM and HOMC. On my Basis, one of my favorite reasombly inexpensive catridge is the Grado Statement Sonata LOMC. It is incredibly smooth, detailed, and the bass is excellent. My primary cart is a Lyra Helikon, more detail, but far less forgiving. Currently forum member Justin Webber is road testing the Grado with his VPI. I am running step up I built with Cinemag transformers. Dave Thats pretty cool dave, when I had my analog / TT setups those were my go to carts, grado sonata, and lyra helicon and lyra beta. I broke my stylus on my helicon I damn near cried, Hooked it on a shirt sleeve swinging the arm across the platter at least I still had my beta, one other giant killer (KINDA) Denon 103d Mike I think you are making a good choice going with the black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I broke my stylus on my helicon I damn near cried My Helikon was damaged as well. Sent to Sound Smith, had it repaired for about $300. Unbelievable repair, damn near good as new. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Dave without reading the entire thread I'll just say this, MM has more bass MC has more clarity!!! I have tried both and I am using a med output 1.0mv MC cartridge!!! I never argue with another's ears. I am just saying what I hear is "clear." Clear has no gradations. It's either clear or less than clear. I might hear a difference, and might even have a slight preference...but I'd consider it a difference, not a matter of better or worse accuracy. These discussions are dang near impossible. Totally subjective, therefore "right" is what works for you. "Wrong" is being dissatisfied for ANY reason. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Dave without reading the entire thread I'll just say this, MM has more bass MC has more clarity!!! I have tried both and I am using a med output 1.0mv MC cartridge!!! I never argue with another's ears. I am just saying what I hear is "clear." Clear has no gradations. It's either clear or less than clear. I might hear a difference, and might even have a slight preference...but I'd consider it a difference, not a matter of better or worse accuracy. These discussions are dang near impossible. Totally subjective, therefore "right" is what works for you. "Wrong" is being dissatisfied for ANY reason. Dave I think the MM and HOMC cartridges today are really that good. They are comparable with the LOMC. I don't think this was the case back in the 70's where the low mass MC had significant advantages over MM. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 +1 for cinemag's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I don't think this was the case back in the 70's where the low mass MC had significant advantages over MM. Never heard MC back then as it was out of my price range completely. Started the 70s with a Garrard Zero 100/Shure V15 and ended with a Stanton Gyropoise which had a permanently mounted 618EEE. I knew a guy that had a table...can't recall the brand of the table itself...with an SME arm. Totally beyond my wildest dreams. I was pretty happy with the sound I was getting. Stanton with a Lux integrated, Rectilinear V Highboys. Had the DynaQuad and Frazier Monte Carlos in the rear, and a DBX117. I hear worse today... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I broke my stylus on my helicon I damn near cried My Helikon was damaged as well. Sent to Sound Smith, had it repaired for about $300. Unbelievable repair, damn near good as new. Dave I was always afraid of having a re-tip done because I figured there was no way to know how it would sound. from your experience looks like I should have done mine I ended up selling the body for something like 100.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Dave without reading the entire thread I'll just say this, MM has more bass MC has more clarity!!! I have tried both and I am using a med output 1.0mv MC cartridge!!! I never argue with another's ears. I am just saying what I hear is "clear." Clear has no gradations. It's either clear or less than clear. I might hear a difference, and might even have a slight preference...but I'd consider it a difference, not a matter of better or worse accuracy. These discussions are dang near impossible. Totally subjective, therefore "right" is what works for you. "Wrong" is being dissatisfied for ANY reason. Dave LOL!!! If that's the case why ask??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 My two cents regarding LOMC vs. MM is this. In the range of $0 - $1000 there are very nice carts in both realms. It would be hard to say one technology is superior. However, once you move above ~$1000 and get into the finest LOMC carts, they are simply better in every way than the MM. They have finer detail and resolution and better clarity. They will require concomitant improvements in electronics. I would be nuts not to mention to Tercel/BBX owners that the BlueBerry Circuit was designed to allow the very best LOMC to shine, and they do. In other words, I would not spend $2000 on an LOMC and then plug it into some generic SS receiver. Waste of money. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) I am limited to MM or HOMC because my Tercell II does not support and my NBS pre-amp is line stage only. Oh, and I love both but it would be nice now that I have (or will be receiving soon) a table that perhaps I might want to experiment cart swaps on. I might even buy another table from a member and I could have that in line. Hey no one has ever accused me of being forwarding thinking. Both Mark and Craig tell me updating either would not make sense space and money wise. Options: Sell Tercel and get another phono stage? What? Sell the NBS and get Craig to build another? Or, what's up with these SUTs and head amps I hear about. Does another link in the chain reduce quality? Thoughts? Your Tercel can be upgraded to have LOMC capability (was called "cream" in the past). It is no big deal. Tercel with LOMC is very cool because you have two phono inputs and can easily switch back and forth. Also, FYI, before you sell your Tercel, there is a big BlueBerry Circuit upgrade in the works that will radically improve any "BlueBerry-based" circuit, and I believe it will make the BlueBerry circuit state of the art once more as it was in 2004. It is after all, 10 years old. I've been working on it since the BBX got copied, and I think for those who held on to their BBX/Tercels, they have a chance to enjoy a greatly improved sound quality over the original BlueBerry-style circuit. The LOMC can be added any time. The circuit upgrade is a month or two away. Sorry Mark, my mistake apologies for bum gouge on the Tercel upgrade. I am interested in getting my Tercel II upgraded. I will email you. Edited May 11, 2014 by USNRET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 I am limited to MM or HOMC because my Tercell II does not support and my NBS pre-amp is line stage only. Oh, and I love both but it would be nice now that I have (or will be receiving soon) a table that perhaps I might want to experiment cart swaps on. I might even buy another table from a member and I could have that in line. Hey no one has ever accused me of being forwarding thinking. Both Mark and Craig tell me updating either would not make sense space and money wise. Options: Sell Tercel and get another phono stage? What? Sell the NBS and get Craig to build another? Or, what's up with these SUTs and head amps I hear about. Does another link in the chain reduce quality? Thoughts? Your Tercel can be upgraded to have LOMC capability (was called "cream" in the past). It is no big deal. Tercel with LOMC is very cool because you have two phono inputs and can easily switch back and forth. Also, FYI, before you sell your Tercel, there is a big BlueBerry Circuit upgrade in the works that will radically improve any "BlueBerry-based" circuit, and I believe it will make the BlueBerry circuit state of the art once more as it was in 2004. It is after all, 10 years old. I've been working on it since the BBX got copied, and I think for those who held on to their BBX/Tercels, they have a chance to enjoy a greatly improved sound quality over the original BlueBerry-style circuit. The LOMC can be added any time. The circuit upgrade is a month or two away. Sorry Mark, my mistake apologies for bum gouge on the Tercel upgrade. I am interested in getting my Tercel II upgraded. I will email you. No worries. For a couple years I was saying "no" to all upgrades and sending repairs out. So, at some time, I may very well have told you "no." It should be me apologizing to you. Ok then, that puts me first in line. Seriously though I did send you an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Ok then, that puts me first in line. Seriously though I did send you an email. You're all set Mike! Let me know when the BBX upgrade is available! Whoops may be I just hijacked this thread....sorry! Edited May 12, 2014 by Tarheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Whoops may be I just hijacked this thread....sorry Not according to the OP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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