Magico Ultimate III Horn-Loaded Loudspeaker System ($600K)

[Chris A]

A recent review on the updated Magico Ultimate loudspeaker system by the magazine The Absolute Sound. 

 

While the author of this article clearly doesn't understand the subject of modulation distortion (mostly AM distortion), he otherwise has found the effects of not time-aligning the drivers-horns for himself, and not getting the room acoustics right. 

 

An interesting read, but it takes a bit of effort to weed through the pseudo-scientific language ("fast", "fixity", "transparent cabling", "wavelaunch", "high-pressure soundwaves", "added distortion is the 'cupped hands' or 'horn coloration'”, etc.). 

 

The overall conclusions are pretty much what the rest of the horn-loaded engineering community has known for some time. but answers some of the questions that I've recently fielded in regard to time-alignment effects and getting the PEQs and crossover filters implemented well to create a neutrally sounding loudspeaker system. EDIT: The comments about getting the phase (or group delay) corrected are of some interest to those that might contemplate using FIR filters (requiring a more expensive active crossover that has that capability, along with something like MATLAB to generate the inverse filter coefficients to smooth the phase response of the 5-way system through those four crossovers).

 

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-ultimate-iii-horn-loaded-loudspeaker/

 

 

Just looking at the horn profiles (i.e., non-conical midrange and midbass horns) and the direct-radiating bass module, I'd say that the soundstage image probably isn't very wide/stable while moving off-center and they will suffer from on-axis mouth reflection problems due to their circular instead of rectangular profiles, and the modulation distortion of the bass modules will overwhelm the cleanness of the horn-loaded midbass horn/driver just above them even at medium-level SPLs.  And they aren't using the room's boundaries to avoid creating notches in the midbass and bass regions and reducing the modulation distortion of the direct-radiating bass modules. 

 

A pity that you'd have to put up with that - all those $600K (US) don't actually buy anything close to perfection

 

And they still look like something out of Beetlejuice

 

Chris

Edited August 27, 2014 by Chris A

[jason str]

I don't get it either, all those nice horns and a distortion spewing woofer to fill in the lows.

 

Something that size could have much more potential.

[mark1101]

Just look at the setup.  All the equipment is behind the speakers.  "Potentially" it looks like he may have a music server where he is standing on the side, and some adjustability.

 

I don't know about you guys but I prefer a setup where I can adjust equipment from the listening area.........like the FOH soundboard at any concert.

 

How would you make adjustments to that system?  Lots of walking I suppose.  It just looks wrong to me.

[Chris A]

Looks like they are using a microphone (in the foreground) and some sort of acoustic acq/analysis program. 

 

If they use their ears, someone else probably does the tweaking.  Not my choice to have it to the side or behind the speakers, either.  A wireless connection to the active(s) would be the most flexible, however.

[tromprof]

 

And they still look like something out of Beetlejuice

 

 

They would fit right in.

.

[Chris A]

I was thinking something like this:

 

Edited August 26, 2014 by Chris A

[mustang guy]

OMG the replies to that article cracked me up. One guy came in correcting a guy who said "I currently use Bose Acoustimass 5, which are awesome, but I think these might be nicer." Some people are just plain stupid.

[longdrive03]

Amen brother!!   Preach on!!   I tell my wife all the time that a lot of questions in life are answered by saying "People are stupid!"

[minermark]

I went to the link, read the entire rant.

Writer seems to spot on, i love those comments, those comments that followed are great, i wonder how those gents would handle our forum here?

I have a few min here, so i think ill go back there and invite them, maybe an influx of new blood.

[Don Richard]

On one hand you have true visionaries like Roy Delgado and Tom Danley designing modern horn loaded loudspeakers that have true performance advantages, and on the other hand there is Alon Wolf designing loudspeakers for trust fund babies who have no idea what good sound is.

 

One could buy about 100 Jubilees for the price of 1 of these things. Guess which would sound better.

[Chris A]

It seems to be a recurring theme that there are much fewer audio engineers that really understand horn-loaded loudspeaker design--and why/how they can sound so much different and better than direct radiating loudspeakers. 

 

In my discussion on the High Efficiency Speaker Asylum with Jean-Michel Le Cléac’h on horn design objectives before his passing, it's clear to me that not everyone agrees on the objectives of horn-loaded loudspeaker design.  In this case, it is clear that Le Cléac’h didn't buy into "controlled coverage" portions of horn design - instead focusing on the idea of relatively flat on-axis FR instead, allowing the off-axis polars of horns to sag on higher frequencies.  I'm sure that you can hear the effects of that difference of opinion in his horn profiles.  My experience has taught me however that controlled coverage is one of the most important attributes of good horn-loaded loudspeaker design and implementation.

 

An area where the Direct-Radiating (DR) community clashes most strongly with the horn-loaded community is on the subject of modulation distortion, Virtually all proponents of direct radiating loudspeakers I find are color blind to this problem of loudspeaker reproduction, i.e., mostly the effects of AM distortion due to cone movement in direct radiators, NOT FM distortion, which can be controlled using multi-way loudspeaker designs such as 3-way, 4-way, etc.  I believe that the way that these folks get away with ignoring AM distortion is to produce large DR loudspeakers and then they don't play them very loudly and/or they don't play them loudly for more than a few seconds, and they tend to prefer compressed-dynamics music when playing them.  High quality horn-loaded loudspeakers really don't have this limitation: they play whatever music is played on them cleanly at all SPLs consistent with real-life acoustic SPLs. 

 

The last area of horn-loaded loudspeakers that I find separates the better practitioners from others is in loudspeaker-room boundary knowledge. When I see fully horn-loaded loudspeakers placed out on the floor of a room, this is always a red flag.  Bass modulation distortion is extremely audible, especially at the much higher SPLs required for equal "phon" loudness relative to midrange frequencies: the Fletcher-Munson effect, and the one area where the distortion is always the greatest--at bass bin frequencies.  Using the room's boundaries (in the form of a corner of a room) to reduce that distortion and to eliminate notches in the bass pass band due to speakers being placed out on the floor of the room--away from the corners--is free.  Any resulting issues with near-field midrange early reflections of placing horn-loaded loudspeakers in the corners of a room are easily controlled using acoustic absorption devices and moving acoustic reflectors away from the loudspeakers.  YMMV.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Chris A

[ClaudeJ1]

On one hand you have true visionaries like Roy Delgado and Tom Danley designing modern horn loaded loudspeakers that have true performance advantages, and on the other hand there is Alon Wolf designing loudspeakers for trust fund babies who have no idea what good sound is.

 

One could buy about 100 Jubilees for the price of 1 of these things. Guess which would sound better.

No kidding. A pair of Jubilees with TAD drivers and a Delgado tweaked active or passive network would stomp this setup. Add a couple of Danley DTS-10 "Super Spuds" crossed at 40-60 hz. and it would kill this stupid thing. $600K, you gotta be kidding

[ClaudeJ1]

In casually looking at the article, someone with $600,000 to spend would be better off doing the $250,000 listening room and putting Jubes and Super Spuds in it for an additional $25,000, which would include all the electronics. the leftover cash could be used to buy a pair of German Luxury cars for he and the wife. Much better value and sound, methinks.

[Arash]

it seems more like a joke with 600K! unaligned horns, direct radiating low end. ugly! where is the mid-range horn supposed to aim at?! is the mid-bass horn made of metal?!

Cessaro Omega is what I call the ultimate horn speaker.

[Quiet_Hollow]

When I see fully horn-loaded loudspeakers placed out on the floor of a room, this is always a red flag. 

  I would tend to agree that most often times, yes.

 

However, where a professional may be involved, one would also have to consider a high-pass filter in use. A quick glance at the size of the longest horn in relation to the distance of the nearest boundary would be the tell-tale there.   

 

The setup in the link is clearly not case. 

[Matthews]

Some people are just plain stupid.

 

CAN'T FIX THAT  

[Chris A]

Cessaro Omega is what I call the ultimate horn speaker.

 

So let's take a look at this horn-loaded loudspeaker:

 

There are no specifications listed for these loudspeakers, but they would take quite a room to accommodate their size. The non-bifurcated bass bins are good - they would also facilitate coupling to the room's boundaries simply by placing them within 18 inches (about 0.5 metre) of a room corner: they're quite high - 2.4 metres (7 feet 10.5 inches), while the lower midrange horns are even taller--appearing to be almost 3 metres (almost 10 feet) off the floor. It also appears to be a 6-way system with circular Le Cléac’h horns (mentioned above).  These horns will experience a drooping of their HF polars as you get off-axis, but since they are clearly not used for more than two octaves each (expected value of the 10 audible octaves) they will not experience as much HF droop with increased listening angle. They boast that they use TAD compression drivers and alnico magnet drivers for all their loudspeakers--which is good.

 

But having five (5) crossover filter pairs is a lot. It would be interesting to understand how they do their crossovers, e.g., do they use actives with delay processing (which appears to be minimal except for the bass bins since their drivers appear to be physically aligned), and how they match their polars at the crossover region of each horn pair being crossed?  These might be very good loudspeakers in the right room that could accommodate their great height.  Another area of concern is the distance between horn centerlines-- which might require the listener to stand back a fair distance in order for the sonic image to coalesce into one image per stereo channel.  Also, since they are so large, it would be difficult to imagine using a center speaker in a multi-channel setup - the listening room would have to approach the size of a movie theater.

 

When you contrast this design with the Synergy Horn series from Danley Sound Labs, which uses multiple-tapped drivers on a single conical horn, it becomes very apparent that the difference in design philosophies result in very different implementations, especially in terms of size...

Edited August 29, 2014 by Chris A

[ClaudeJ1]

I would give that prize to this guy: http://www.royaldevice.com/custom3.htm with the concrete full horn subs, but on a more practical level the best horns I've ever heard were Sadurni Acoustics at the Chicago Axpona show. Simply magical microdetail and imaging. Only $40,000 including subs.

[Chris A]

...but on a more practical level the best horns I've ever heard were Sadurni Acoustics at the Chicago Axpona show. Simply magical microdetail and imaging. Only $40,000 including subs.

So let's take a look...

 

 

 

These clearly are using time-aligned drivers, and non-conical horn profiles.  The horns are clearly placed near the corners of the room, with the subs within a couple of feet of the rest of the loudspeaker (these appear to be DR subs with visible drivers on the ends):

 

 

"Our Added Back Wave system comprises a series of concentrically disposed channels which receive the back wave of the bass driver, augment it, and bring it forward to a calculated chamber where the front and the rear output of the driver come together through a peripheral ring: in phase and in perfect harmony. Both outputs of the driver add their strengths and exit the baffle right away, with maximum strength and utmost transparency."

 

Claude - did you get to listen to these off-axis? Those appear to be Fostex T500AMKII bullet tweeters.

 

The amplification/crossover scheme is pretty interesting - I'm not sure why they'd do it that way:

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by Chris A