Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 So with my current room when I calibrate with my receiver it maxes all channels except for sub out at -12. This causes the calibration to be way off. Forces me to use an amp so I can use my attenuators in line with rca to bring everything into tolerance. Well finally sold the amp and now wondering of buying a new avr like the denon 4520 maybe it will have less voltage or something and calibrate in tolerance? Otherwise I was planning on using a few pro amps with gain attenuators for the speakers. Anyone's opinion on switching receivers would be very helpful. I hate to switch from my 805 for no reason cause it runs like a champ still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) It sounds like the speakers sensitivity is to high for the distance from the LP. I am not sure if going with another avr is the solution. I like the attenuator ideal. Those Cinema speakers get really loud without much power. Where does Auddyseey set the sub? I take it you are not using the amp. Edited September 2, 2014 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Sets the subs at -7. Amp is gone. Gotta figure something out. Accesories 4 less had 4520 for 1299. Now down to 1099. Crazy cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I have the 4520 and it set my La Scalas in my old room to -12 too. My current setup is also -12 with the subs at -5, and -6. I was told it makes no difference as it is calibrating them for reference level... Which makes sense. The only thing is the Denon is maxed at -12 so if your speakers are way too efficient, I think it could mess up the EQ settings, but I am not an expert so I don't know for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Yeah if your at -12 your receiver could Be trying to turn them even lower. So if your center is say at -10 then your mains might be way got and not calibrated right at all. I think I better just do some amps with gain control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Or use a shack meter (what I have to use). I leave the 904s at -12 and bump everything else up 3db. That would make reference at -3. Being that the 904s seem to be around 3db hot at -12. I know you want 0 reference. But I don't see the difference of 0 or -3. It would be the same set up this way imo. Would also save you some money for theater chairs Edited September 2, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Yeah but here's the problem with that. I feel like there is a voltage issue somehow cause I feel like my system has no guts till I get up to like -8 on the volume. And you now that's not the case with these speakers ref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Also, if it is maxed at -12, who's to say it would be properly balanced? In other words, if Audyssey could go to -24, would it? It seems to me like somebody here used to measure at higher levels on the sub (above 75db), and that would cause more lfe. In your situation, I'm not sure. I can see where this is very confusing. Have you ever used REW? http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 With the pro version of the LaScala, you have the same problem. To increase the power handling, they drop the K-33 and use a K-43. Okay, so now you get 200wpc of power handling, but there is absolutely no bass whatsoever until you get some juice into them -- as if those woofers just plain don't want to move without a good kick. I'm not an HT guy, so I'm having some trouble understanding what the problem is here -- is it a gain matching issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I wonder if you nailed it. Talking to Roy once, I remember him saying something about having to put some volts to the woofers to get them moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Also, if it is maxed at -12, who's to say it would be properly balanced? In other words, if Audyssey could go to -24, would it? It seems to me like somebody here used to measure at higher levels on the sub (above 75db), and that would cause more lfe. In your situation, I'm not sure. I can see where this is very confusing. Have you ever used REW? http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ im sure it would. i just ran audyssey with my denon 1713 downstairs to try that out. same thing. all negative 12 except for the sub. subs at -7.5 i got out the omnimic and checked levels. fronts were at 77 and and surrounds around 73. so just turned the rears up 4 db an subs up 4 db as well so everything was level matched. is it a gain matching issue? not sure dean. all i know is that my speakers are just too efficient for my room. go figure they are movie theater speakers. however i love their sound. is it possible if you did my crossovers that i sent you yesterday that you could make them less efficient? not sure if that would even be a good idea or possible. i should probably just get the pro amps like i am thinking and turn the gain down to a tolerable level and go from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 2, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't get it, if all channels are -12 why is this a problem ? Wouldn't all channels set to -12 be the same, why not just set them all to 0 and just use less of the amp ? I could understand if some were -2 and some were -12 of any other combination, but being all the same can't you just set it how you like, subs are easily adjusted with the separate amps. please explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't get it, if all channels are -12 why is this a problem ? Wouldn't all channels set to -12 be the same, why not just set them all to 0 and just use less of the amp ? I could understand if some were -2 and some were -12 of any other combination, but being all the same can't you just set it how you like, subs are easily adjusted with the separate amps. please explain Because the denon won't go pas the -12 scrappys spl's could be at -14 or -15 and he doesn't know without using his spl meter for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 2, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 2, 2014 OK I get it, thanks. I don't know these things, I have to use an SPL meter to set mine, all it has is a test tone to get each speaker the same volume. Before changing things I would check with an SPL meter and set the lowest one at 0 and go down from there. Would this mess up the auto EQ thing ? I only say this because you would hate to degrade the sound by doing something to get the signal low enough to use the auto setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I am like Scrappy, the -12 would bother me as far as calibration of the speakers. I have to set my sub to -65 or 66 before running autocalibration and then the trim ends up at around -8. I have heard about the subs contributing to the problem with the maxed out trim levels. It would be interesting to see what Auddyseey would set the speaker levels with out the subs in the mix. I don't use Auddyseey so, I am just speculating. Edited September 2, 2014 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Yeah I might try without the subs. Both receivers have set subs to the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah but here's the problem with that. I feel like there is a voltage issue somehow cause I feel like my system has no guts till I get up to like -8 on the volume. And you now that's not the case with these speakers ref. Have you ran your system with just the avr before you sold the amp? This has to be in the back of your mind (it would be in mine). Edited September 2, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Have you done an impedence measurement of all those speakers? Not real sure what your problem is but sounds like your saying the system is gutless? Looks like an awful lot of drivers to push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Have you done an impedence measurement of all those speakers? Not real sure what your problem is but sounds like your saying the system is gutless? Looks like an awful lot of drivers to push. Explain Please.......... Edited September 3, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 3, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 3, 2014 He may mean at times the impedance may be to much for the receiver to handle, that is a lot of drivers ? Just trying to understand. What if you lowered the volume and ran Audssey ? In a room (not huge) with large speakers it may have a problem, when they designed audssey I doubt they considered speakers that size and capability in a room that size, most average people have much smaller speakers that are less efficient in a room that size. this setup ma be well outside the design or capability of Audssey. Put your speakers in a much larger room and it may work. That's why I thought run it at a much lower volume if it allows, this may trick Audssey into thinking the room is larger or the speakers are smaller, or at least bring it back into the parameters where it can work? Similar to adjusting the gain, in a way ? Also if that doesn't help, I would turn off the sub and try it just to see what would happen. I have no experience with this auto adjustment stuff, just speculating with ideas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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