Rick J B Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 You tube guys who have over time figured out what tubes perform best in your gear don't need me telling you this, but still, these developments have me grinning ear to ear. As I mentioned the other day I've recently aquired a Yaqin preamp. I like it thus far, but had noticed a certain upper midrange harshness with it and the depth of sound stage just collapses with it in the system. The 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes that come in this unit are unbranded Chinese offerings and probably not at the apex of tube quality. So I decided to try a couple different experiments with different tubes to see if I couldn't improve its performance. My first idea was to try some new tubes and I got some new Mullard 12AX7's and some gold pin Electro Harmonix 12AU7's. But, I had also aquired some NOS Siemans and Raytheon tubes. So far I'm using the NOS tubes and I'm gobsmacked at how much better this little system sounds. Right now I've got Siemans 12AX7's and Raytheon 12AU7 black plates in the pre, I've got some Sylvania NOS black plates to try too. This was certainly a move in the right direction. Less grit, better bass and soundstage, and just smoother over all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 You are on a slippery slope now! Welcome! There's always room for more 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 You are on a slippery slope now! Welcome! There's always room for more Yeah, these darned things aren't cheap. So far I had only tried a couple different 6922 input tubes in my amp. Its only one tube so what the heck. Thus far the JAN Phillips in that spot is my fave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have rolled a few tubes on eBay, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Rick, I'm not going to start a gray vs. black plate tube discussion "war!" But, if you really want to evaluate differences in brands (as that is much more likely to render sonic differences than the color of the plate or whether the pins are gold plated or not), have a trusted friend come over and swap tubes while you are blindfolded. Then simply listen to no more than a 2 minute track without changing the position of the volume control. You may be amazed at the conclusions you draw when the knowledge of which tubes you are hearing is removed from your consideration. The sonic differences are usually traceable to manufacturer differences in inter-electrode capacitance, transconductance, and other factors. And even from the same manufacturer, variations from one lot to another may be audible as a result of the normal production tolerances. In any event, with small signal tubes the lifespan should be so long that once you find those you prefer it's unlikely you will need to change them for a very long time. Maynard 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I thank the vintage gods that I stocked up on good vintage tuibes for my gear before the prices went crazy and the stocks became so rare. Once I began to understand my preferences in tubes for my specific gears, I stocked up. Ebay used to be a real treasure trove in tubes - especially back when people didn't really trust euro sellers. I've bought tubes from Sweden, Turkey, Germany, Canada....even Russia. I located all kinds of stuff, like Siemens and Phillips 6922 and 7308, as well as GZ34, Phillips Holland 12AX7 and 12AU7....all true NOS. I have a different take on tube rolling, though. I tended to listen for a few weeks before making any changes - assuming the sonics weren't a total "flop". I find that what is heard initially isn't always the best total impression. I want the tubes good and hot, and want to listen across a broad range of sources and music types before making a final decision. I like Philips Holland late 50's/early 60's in 12AX7, 12AU7, and 6DJ8 family tubes in most of my newer gears, and Tele 12AX7s for my vintage Mac stuff. And of course always use Mullard GZ34 as my exclusive GZ34. About the only current/recent production tubes I use whatsoever are the Penta Labs KT88 in my VRDs. Everything else are the old stuff. Using the best in vintage tubes brings out the best in my gears, and the totality of improvements really make a difference. Good parts and tubes in good gear make my gear "upgrade-proof". It took years to figure it out, though Totally worth it once done. These days I just listen 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 It's nice to see a good old tube discussion break out... seems like it has been a while! I like Tele's for the Fisher and Scott. The VRD loves a CBS 7318 in the 12au7 slot and for the 12ax7 slot I've been trading between Brimar and a Mullard 10m. I admit to using Sovtec 5ar4 in the VRD's as I never pinned down a difference in sound between the Mullard and the Sovtec. I just haven't taken the time for that yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) It's nice to see a good old tube discussion break out... seems like it has been a while! I like Tele's for the Fisher and Scott. The VRD loves a CBS 7318 in the 12au7 slot and for the 12ax7 slot I've been trading between Brimar and a Mullard 10m. I admit to using Sovtec 5ar4 in the VRD's as I never pinned down a difference in sound between the Mullard and the Sovtec. I just haven't taken the time for that yet. +1 on the 7318's I will be trying a different 12AX7 this afternoon Edited September 23, 2014 by A1UC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 choice tubes are interesting and fun. seems like I always get to a spot where I have to stop or I wouldn't be able to eat for a month. there are always tubes that cost more and once I would get the next best set I would find more that I wanted to try. even some cheapo tubes, economical..do what I want compared to the next guy or vise versa. the next thing I started doing was wearing gloves like you would installing led headlamps. its interesting and fun when people share what they find and do with tubes and tube gear. Iv only had one set of pre tubes burn out and they were very old, rare and a bit expensive for inexpensive or just any I could find. a u&6 I believe(I cant remember the number there were 3 letters or numbers mixed)was in the name or label of the tube...I ended up finding tubes from a shop locally which led to them teaching me quite a bit about tube gear to get started. They also have a good tech...expensive yet good and local. a few years ago I couldn't stop calling tubes bulbs...man they put the smackdown on that lol now after a few more years of learning and meeting others with tube gear it has been an interesting adventure.... One situation I find interesting is that Paul Klipsch used solid state for quite a few years. This and the ease of use has put me more in use with solid state gear lately. I still have a couple tube units I put in rotation every few months. Im hoping I can hold on to at least one until I move into a bigger house. I just don't have the room for any other setups in the little duplex deal I live in now. Also these days regardless of what gear I buy I plan on keeping it. Things to buy and test is a bottomless pit. Iv taken a loss on fresh broke in tubes to receivers etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I just bought doctorcilantro's Genalex 6922's from the garage sale section last week... the improvement was so marked, that I have already gone ahead and purchased a much more expensive set of 6922's in anticipation for an even more marked improvement in my Tube Pre. I can see though where this might have an end and diminishing returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorm Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 In my Fisher 500c, I found my magical combination to be GE black plate triple mica 5751s in the tone tubes, and RCA Black plate triple mica 12ax7 in the phase position.I also have a 2 pairs of Fisher branded Telefunkens, however I found them a little to bright for use. I am also running a pair of GE Black plate triple Micas in my Jolida FX DAC II. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Rick, I'm not going to start a gray vs. black plate tube discussion "war!" But, if you really want to evaluate differences in brands (as that is much more likely to render sonic differences than the color of the plate or whether the pins are gold plated or not), have a trusted friend come over and swap tubes while you are blindfolded. Then simply listen to no more than a 2 minute track without changing the position of the volume control. You may be amazed at the conclusions you draw when the knowledge of which tubes you are hearing is removed from your consideration. The sonic differences are usually traceable to manufacturer differences in inter-electrode capacitance, transconductance, and other factors. And even from the same manufacturer, variations from one lot to another may be audible as a result of the normal production tolerances. In any event, with small signal tubes the lifespan should be so long that once you find those you prefer it's unlikely you will need to change them for a very long time. Maynard But, but... short, long, ribbed or smooth??? You know I started yesterday by trading out the generic Chinese tubes with the Siemans and Raytheon's like I had mentioned. I've other tubes I intended to try (and will) but right now the system sounds so nice I don't want to touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 In my Fisher 500c, I found my magical combination to be GE black plate triple mica 5751s in the tone tubes, and RCA Black plate triple mica 12ax7 in the phase position. I also have a 2 pairs of Fisher branded Telefunkens, however I found them a little to bright for use. I am also running a pair of GE Black plate triple Micas in my Jolida FX DAC II. Gorm, I use a FX DAC-II in my system also. What different tubes have you tried in it? So far I've used the new make Tung-Sol's that came with it and a pair of new issue Mullard's. Not sure yet which I like better, not sure I can hear a difference really. I also have a rebuilt Fisher integrated amp coming that should prove interesting to roll tubes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorm Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 In my Fisher 500c, I found my magical combination to be GE black plate triple mica 5751s in the tone tubes, and RCA Black plate triple mica 12ax7 in the phase position. I also have a 2 pairs of Fisher branded Telefunkens, however I found them a little to bright for use. I am also running a pair of GE Black plate triple Micas in my Jolida FX DAC II. Gorm, I use a FX DAC-II in my system also. What different tubes have you tried in it? So far I've used the new make Tung-Sol's that came with it and a pair of new issue Mullard's. Not sure yet which I like better, not sure I can hear a difference really. I also have a rebuilt Fisher integrated amp coming that should prove interesting to roll tubes through. You really have to try the 5751s GE Black plate, they take the DAC to another level. Do you ever make it up to Iowa? Love to show off the system at some point to other people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) +2 on the 7318. Big tone, dynamics, and very 3D sounding. Special tube for any 12AU7 spot. There really is no other 12AU7 once you try these IMO... The 10M 12AX7 is my pick for 12AX7. The Black Plate GE 5751 is sonically equivalent, but won't last as long. The Tesla E83CC is also very damn good. Tad less warmth than the Mullard, but I think a little sharper focused. Still gotta try the Brimar's... Edited September 23, 2014 by paul79 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 +2 on the 7318. Big tone, dynamics, and very 3D sounding. Special tube for any 12AU7 spot. There really is no other 12AU7 once you try these IMO... The 10M 12AX7 is my pick for 12AX7. The Black Plate GE 5751 is sonically equivalent, but won't last as long. The Tesla E83CC is also very damn good. Tad less warmth than the Mullard, but I think a little sharper focused. Still gotta try the Brimar's... I wish I'd bought more than one pair of the Brimar... seems like they went up in price last time I looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 In my Fisher 500c, I found my magical combination to be GE black plate triple mica 5751s in the tone tubes, and RCA Black plate triple mica 12ax7 in the phase position. I also have a 2 pairs of Fisher branded Telefunkens, however I found them a little to bright for use. I am also running a pair of GE Black plate triple Micas in my Jolida FX DAC II. Gorm, I use a FX DAC-II in my system also. What different tubes have you tried in it? So far I've used the new make Tung-Sol's that came with it and a pair of new issue Mullard's. Not sure yet which I like better, not sure I can hear a difference really. I also have a rebuilt Fisher integrated amp coming that should prove interesting to roll tubes through. You really have to try the 5751s GE Black plate, they take the DAC to another level. Do you ever make it up to Iowa? Love to show off the system at some point to other people. I'll put those on the short list. I didn't know you could plug a 5751 in a 12AX7 spot. I like what I read about those GE's tho. What does a NOS pair usually retail for? The guys on hifiwigwam really like Siemans ECC83's in the Jolida too. This isn't the GE tube you're referring to is it. : http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/JAN-GE-5751 Also, how do you connect your Jolida to your CD player? I'm using an optical cable but have a coax cable I'll try eventually. And if I'm ever up your way I'll holler, I'd love to see your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick J B Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 It's nice to see a good old tube discussion break out... seems like it has been a while! I like Tele's for the Fisher and Scott. The VRD loves a CBS 7318 in the 12au7 slot and for the 12ax7 slot I've been trading between Brimar and a Mullard 10m. I admit to using Sovtec 5ar4 in the VRD's as I never pinned down a difference in sound between the Mullard and the Sovtec. I just haven't taken the time for that yet. Another tube I'm not familiar with. Rare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Extremely rare. These dried up before the internet was cool, so very little about them to be found... I know where they are though PM me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I wonder if tube rolling works on other .......things. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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