buckaroo Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 New here and my first post. Hello to all. In the 1970's I bought a Marantz 2238 receiver. I still own and operate it regularly. Originally I used JBL LXX? speakers, then in the early 1990's made the move to Klipsch KG 2.2. Last month I acquired a new pair of Klipsch Heresy III and they are mated to the Marantz 2238. WOW!!! I am so much a Klipsch fan. I just got my son his first "starter" Klipsch: a pair of RB 51 II. My point is this: happy to be a new forum member and amazed at how all these speaker sets, while very different, still seem to have a similar "sonic" connection. I was really shocked at the shared sonic DNA between the KG 2.2 and the Heresy III. (Albeit a bit less so for the China made RB 51 II.) I just ordered a Marantz PM 8005 receiver to share duty with the nearly 40 year old Marantz 2238. I will be curious to discover how much sonic DNA those two might share. Buckaroo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I just ordered a Marantz PM 8005 receiver to share duty with the nearly 40 year old Marantz 2238. I will be curious to discover how much sonic DNA those two might share. I'll be honest, they won't share much....IMHO.....but would certainly be interested to read your impressions when you have a chance to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Welcome to the forums! I personally love the older equipment with Klipsch heritage speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) The new Marantz PM 8005 with Klipsch speakers: I have compared the new Marantz PM 8005 with vintage (all original except bulbs) Marantz 2238. I used a Rega TT with Exact cart and also used each amp on two sets of Klipsch speakers: (new set of Heresy III and an original set of 1993 Klipsch KG 2.2). My initial impression of the PM 8005 after only a few hours of listening is that the new amp sounds "new" and the vintage amp sounds "old" and well broken in. And there is certainly a charm / character to that old sound that will take the new amp many years to evolve to achieve. Having said that, the new amp sounds very tight in the bass compared to the old one. When I reduce the bass slightly it sounds a bit more like the vintage model...but with a bit more definition / focus in the low end still. The mids seem pretty smooth and balanced. They needed no attenuation to compare in a favorable way to the older amp. Nice detail in these new mids. The high frequency imaging seems to have a bit more clarity / focus on the new one. Though I don't think it is overall any brighter than the old one. Overall, the new amp with no break in period yet, has strong bass and a tighter sound rather than a relaxed vintage sonic character, compared to the older amp. The overall quality of that sound seems to have a bit more focus / detail / imaging than the old one. Overall, the new amp does not seem significantly darker or brighter than the new amp and has a non fatiguing sonic character not unlike the old one. I could listen to either one and enjoy the sound. The new amp seems more sonically neutral than the old one; lacking some of the aged sonic character / sweetness of the old amp. No doubt at least partly due to caps and resistors that are new versus nearly 40 years old. Although I am certain the circuits are not identical and that is contributory to the difference as well. Make no mistake though that the new amp does not sound clinical or void of sonic character. It has a pleasant sound that is easy to listen to. It is mostly tighter and focused imaging compared to the old amp, which sounds relaxed and a bit "sweeter" (aka...desirable sonic fatigue from aging). I think the main difference between the two amps is more about new versus old than anything else. I would bet that if I could hear the 2238 "as new" again there would be greater similarity between the two amps. The build quality of the new amp is very good. It is made in Japan FWIW. I like the new amp and will use both for different rooms. It is hard to say one is better. They are different but have significant similarity for the listener that wants to take the time to perceive such sonic nuance. I won't give up the old amp. but I will enjoy listening to the new one to discover how it breaks in over the next few years. Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in buying current Marantz PM 8005. Edited December 30, 2014 by buckaroo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 You'd probably change your opinion of your old Marantz's bass if you had a proper re capping done. Welcome to the forum! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 A "break in" for the new Marantz? I hope you are a young man.....thanks for the impressions. Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 You'd probably change your opinion of your old Marantz's bass if you had a proper re capping done. Welcome to the forum! Perhaps, but then that old Marantz would be somewhat "new" again and not original as it is now. I really like the old fatigued sonic character. That is the charm of the vintage amp for me. It still has more than adequate low end. And still functions in a reliable manner. My guess is that if I measured the capacitance of the old caps they would not be too far off yet. I think the "old" sound comes from the ageing of all the parts as a whole. I likely will not change parts until they fail or degrade to the point of sonic disfavor. But I recognize that many prefer to recap / restore old amps as a matter of routine and that is certainly a valid approach. I just don't think mine needs that intervention just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 A "break in" for the new Marantz? I hope you are a young man.....thanks for the impressions. Welcome to the forum. Ha! yes it will be my son who will benefit from the "break in" more than me. Thank you for the Welcome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg5775 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The new Marantz PM 8005 with Klipsch speakers: I have compared the new Marantz PM 8005 with vintage (all original except bulbs) Marantz 2238. I used a Rega TT with Exact cart and also used each amp on two sets of Klipsch speakers: (new set of Heresy III and an original set of 1993 Klipsch KG 2.2). My initial impression of the PM 8005 after only a few hours of listening is that the new amp sounds "new" and the vintage amp sounds "old" and well broken in. And there is certainly a charm / character to that old sound that will take the new amp many years to evolve to achieve. Having said that, the new amp sounds very tight in the bass compared to the new one. When I reduce the bass slightly it sounds a bit more like the vintage model...but with a bit more definition / focus in the low end still. The mids seem pretty smooth and balanced. They needed no attenuation to compare in a favorable way to the older amp. Nice detail in these new mids. The high frequency imaging seems to have a bit more clarity / focus on the new one. Though I don't think it is overall any brighter than the old one. Overall, the new amp with no break in period yet, has strong bass and a tighter sound rather than a relaxed vintage sonic character, compared to the older amp. The overall quality of that sound seems to have a bit more focus / detail / imaging than the old one. Overall, the new amp does not seem significantly darker or brighter than the new amp and has a non fatiguing sonic character not unlike the old one. I could listen to either one and enjoy the sound. The new amp seems more sonically neutral than the old one; lacking some of the aged sonic character / sweetness of the old amp. No doubt at least partly due to caps and resistors that are new versus nearly 40 years old. Although I am certain the circuits are not identicle and that is contributory to the difference as well. Make no mistake though that the new amp does not sound clinical or void of sonic character. It has a pleasant sound that is easy to listen to. It is mostly tighter and focused imaging compared to the old amp, which sounds relaxed and a bit "sweeter" (aka...desirable sonic fatigue from aging). I think the main difference between the two amps is more about new versus old than anything else. I would bet that if I could hear the 2238 "as new" again there would be graeter similarity between the two amps. The build quality of the new amp is very good. It is made in Japan FWIW. I like the new amp and will use both for different rooms. It is hard to say one is better. They are different but have significant similarity for the listener that wants to take the time to perceive such sonic nuance. I won't give up the old amp. but I will enjoy listening to the new one to discover how it breaks in over the next few years. Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in buying current Marantz PM 8005. Thanks for the reveiw. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Welcome to the forum and thanks for your review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Perhaps, but then that old Marantz would be somewhat "new" again and not original as it is now. I really like the old fatigued sonic character. That is the charm of the vintage amp for me. It still has more than adequate low end. And still functions in a reliable manner. That's like saying I like the nostalgic blue smoke from the worn out rings in my original 66 Mustang. Different strokes I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Perhaps, but then that old Marantz would be somewhat "new" again and not original as it is now. I really like the old fatigued sonic character. That is the charm of the vintage amp for me. It still has more than adequate low end. And still functions in a reliable manner. That's like saying I like the nostalgic blue smoke from the worn out rings in my original 66 Mustang. Different strokes I guess. Well actually, if it had the blue smoke symptom it would be sonic disfavor, then a replacement would be indicated. I agree that the sound that each listener prefers is very subjective. Part of the appeal of old amps, for me, is the subtle degree of fatigue that occurs with parts before they fall "too far" out of spec. In other words "broken in". Not everyone likes their blue jeans stiff as when they are brand new, some like them more broken in after multiple washings and wearings. Eventually, when the jeans do wear out, then replacement is indicated. So I guess I am saying that there is an acceptable degree of normal wear on old electronic parts, and that degree of wear might be sonically desireable to some individuals. IMO, the wear contributes to the "vintage sound". And those degrees may vary according to an individual's sonic taste. That is my only point. Edited December 27, 2014 by buckaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Welcome to the Forum. I have the pleasure of listening to several Marantz options, and believe you'll enjoy the 8005 for many years to come. You should checkout the Hope gathering that's coming in the spring @ Hope. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Great speakers! We love pics here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I guess my point then is that there's a fine line between broken in and worn out. If you use something every day , it's hard to tell when the line was crossed, kind of like caps in crossovers. You never realize how bad they've gotten till you replace them and everything sounds so much better. Most people get used to the very gradual degradation over time. I agree with the above, pics would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Welcome to the forum buckaroo. Thanks for your reviews. Recapped or not, definitely hold on to that 2238. I've got a few Harman Kardon vintage receivers and enjoy their sound very much. Can we see those KG 2.2s and new Heresy IIIs please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Welcome! I have been thinking of getting a new set of H3's for over a year just can't find my self to pull the trigger yet as I'm unsure how much difference there are between the 2 and 3 series. I have a "new" Marantz receiver also and it sounds great to me. WE NEEDS PICS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Would like to post images. Trying to discover how to do that on this forum. Looks like they need to be posted somewhere online then insert the URL after clicking the photo button? So you can't insert them directly into a post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You might click 'more reply options' as there should be a link at the top to insert a picture (or you can do the URL thing as you say) Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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