Some interesting facts about fast food in the US

[oldtimer]

No fries.  Chips.

[oldtimer]

They have to go to Wharton Business School to actually learn how to do bad.

 

Man don't you know it.  Excellent observation.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

I am arguing that such a system is immoral, and needs to be tossed into the rubbish bin of history. We must adopt a moral system, based on always seeking the good.

We are getting ever closer to being on the same plane.

The problem with what you describe is that it is Utopian. It is too inexact. It assumes there is some common understanding of what is "good" and "acceptable" and what is not. Some people are quite happy eating Yoga mats in their bread. They don't care. It tastes so good.

You have laid down a concept, but the devil is in the detail once again. And so, 'round and 'round it goes. When you can tell us what regulations will be laid down in this new moral system, let us know. After all, you can't judge or enforce morality without regulations.

Offering yoga mat in the bread to people who will accept it is NOT an example of doing good, right?

We have three common behaviors: doing bad, not doing bad or good, and doing good. Almost all people on the earth today understand doing good. Isn't that funny? They have to go to Wharton Business School to actually learn how to do bad. It's quite a specialty! It will cost $200,000 and take 2 years of your life.

So, the good news is that most people are already ready-made for doing good. I don't know about you, but that fascinates me.

What's missing?

 

The thing that is missing is logic.  People are doing what people naturally do.  Some think it's good; others think it's bad.

 

People don't just put Yoga mat into food to do bad.  There are reasons they do it.   You are just using your own judgment to conclude that the bad outweighs the good, but that's you.  There are plenty of good people who would disagree with you.  It's not a lot different than people chosing to inject Botox into themselves. They aren't doing it just to be bad.

 

Here is an article that tells you the good and the bad about the Yoga mat. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/03/06/286886095/almost-500-foods-contain-the-yoga-mat-compound-should-we-care-keep

Edited February 12, 2015 by Jeff Matthews

[Jeff Matthews]

Double

Edited February 12, 2015 by Jeff Matthews

[tube fanatic]

This has turned into a really excellent discussion with its varied points of view.  To me, the bottom line here is that we humans are a totally flawed species.  At this point in our evolution the only concern we should have is preservation of all life on this planet.  That we are contributing to the destruction of the environment by our greed is indisputable.  I can't imagine that the executives of Monsanto, McDonalds, et al, eat the poison they force on the marketplace in this country.  And while Mercola may be an alarmist, if one independently researches his assertions, it will be found that most of what he says is true.  His comments on just how poisonous Monitor is are accurate.  And that's only one of the more than 80 thousand chemicals to which we are exposed constantly.  No one has any idea what most of those chemicals can do to living organisms (never tested), and in combination the effects certainly are unknown.  Here's the "poop" on Monitor.  After reading it, tell me that you want to be eating this poison...........
 

 

Maynard

 

(Don't forget to read the disclaimer, and limitations of liability at the end of the document also!)

ld68L002.pdf

Edited February 12, 2015 by tube fanatic

[Jeff Matthews]

This has turned into a really excellent discussion with its varied points of view.  To me, the bottom line here is that we humans are a totally flawed species.  At this point in our evolution the only concern we should have is preservation of all life on this planet.  That we are contributing to the destruction of the environment by our greed is indisputable.  I can't imagine that the executives of Monsanto, McDonalds, et al, eat the poison they force on the marketplace in this country.  And while Mercola may be an alarmist, if one independently researches his assertions, it will be found that most of what he says is true.  His comments on just how poisonous Monitor is are accurate.  And that's only one of the more than 80 thousand chemicals to which we are exposed constantly.  No one has any idea what most of those chemicals can do to living organisms (never tested), and in combination the effects certainly are unknown.  Here's the "poop" on Monitor.  After reading it, tell me that you want to be eating this poison...........

 

 

Maynard

 

(Don't forget to read the disclaimer, and limitations of liability at the end of the document also!)

 

Same kinds of things can be said of chlorine, fluoride, copper, etc.  It's easy to get an emotional reaction out of reading that, but the truth is that toxicity really does involve concentration.  That said, it doesn't really make me want to go and salt my food with it.

[JJkizak]

Memory Lane: In the late 60's i would order two Big Mac's and two fries while standing in a line of ten with 5 other lines of ten with the counter people hand writing the receipts and got my stuff quicker than nowadays with no lines and all electronic calculation. It tasted a lot better then than now and I didn't have a clue what was used to create them and didn't care.

JJK

[Fish]

What the world needs is a savior.

  I agree, and its something that has been considered for a few thousand years. Just one problem, some "men" want to be the savior, but not for everyone, just some. I've said for years only Superman could fix this mess, but he's not real and even if he was he has a weakness too.

 

You strike me as a pretty nice guy, although we may not agree on everything. I'm sure you as well as me and many others would love a world where instead of War we worked to solve mans problems. We valued what people do for mankind instead of worshipping athletes and movie stars. We appreciated Health care researchers and workers like stars, peacemakers as much or anyone working to help mankind. Problem...there really is evil people that just ain't gonna have it, Lex Luthers really exist for whatever reason. If you can't face them down they will be in charge with their evil rule and it could be lots worse.

 

We will never be rid of evil, it's just what some people have in their dna. If you cant beat it you will be ruled by it.

[Mallette]

Take that personality, remove the religion, shave a few years off the age, and make him/her multi lingual, and you start to have a chance at a savior.

 

Heck, keep the religion and simply remove the 1500 years of baggage and you'd be getting there.  He and the Dalai Lama are probably the closet things we have to a universal conscience that a majority will listen to.  In the case of the DL, the Chinese stripped him of his baggage so he's been able to work as ambassador without portfolio. 

 

Dave

[oldtimer]

Memory Lane: In the late 60's i would order two Big Mac's and two fries while standing in a line of ten with 5 other lines of ten with the counter people hand writing the receipts and got my stuff quicker than nowadays with no lines and all electronic calculation. It tasted a lot better then than now and I didn't have a clue what was used to create them and didn't care.

JJK

I had a clue.  I would watch the guy take fresh potatoes one at a time and put them through a wall mounted slicer.  After enough for a batch they went into the fryer.  By the mid seventies they switched to frozen.

In the mid seventies Taco bell made taco meat from real ground beef, on site, and real beans on site in a pressure cooker.  I know because I was there.  Now I won't touch any of that stuff.

Edited February 12, 2015 by oldtimer

[Mallette]

Taco Bell.  A few years ago I had a hankering for tacos.  I knew I hadn't been to one in years and the food was probably the reason, but really couldn't recall.  Heck, I thought, just burger in a fried corn tortilla, some spice, cheese and veggies.  Couldn't be that bad...

 

I managed one bite.  While few may recall the reference, the "burger" looked like Gaines meal and probably wasn't as tasty.  Sawdust would have been welcome compared to whatever they cut their burger with.  The shell appeared to be total artificial.  I suspect made from some sort of corn mush and pressed. 

 

No way I can figure out how they can sell that stuff. 

 

Same for Long John Silver's.  There is absolutely nothing on their menu I can tolerate. 

 

Dave

[Mallette]

Just thinking further...Tortillas.  I am not sure there is a simpler, cheaper food on the planet.  They are so cheap in Houston I really don't have a clue what they cost...you get a big stack for almost nothing. 

 

What POSSIBLE reason could one have for synthesizing them?  It can't be ingredient cost or complexity.

 

I can understand, though not like, the reasons to fill meat.  Even 5% would add up to big bucks over time.  But tortillas?  Gimme a break...

 

Dave

[Travis In Austin]

 

So in Utopia the food is free, but we all have to eat together as I recall, in food halls. Hmmmmm? Do they serve cheese burgers?

It might work.

LOL No. You're are thinking of communes. Different concept.

The people came to the food bank, picked up their groceries and went home to prepare and eat them with their own family. No food halls.

 

 

A summarization from Wikipedia, it has been 30 years years since I read Utopia, but this was in line with my recollection:

 

Meals are taken in community dining halls and the job of feeding the population is given to a different household in turn. Although all are fed the same, Raphael explains that the old and the administrators are given the best of the food. Travel on the island is only permitted with an internal passport and any people found without a passport are, on a first occasion, returned in disgrace, but after a second offence they are placed in slavery. In addition, there are no lawyers and the law is made deliberately simple, as all should understand it and not leave people in any doubt of what is right and wrong.

 

When it is my turn to "feed the population" I'm serving cheese burgers and Texas BBQ, with Oldtimer's hot sauce.  Mallet, as an "administrator" I will set aside the best for you.  WHat is considered "old" in Utopia? I guess I will have to learn to garden, as there are no lawyers.  

 

Is there vinyl in Utopia?  

[Travis In Austin]

 

They have to go to Wharton Business School to actually learn how to do bad.

 

Man don't you know it.  Excellent observation.

 

 

 

I don't think they teach "bad" at Penn, McCombs, Harvard Business School, or elsewhere, but they DO do a lot of case study analysis.  They look at cases like Polaroid, Dr. Pepper, Kodak, Southwest Airlines, Braniff and they look at Whole Foods.  What they teach now is completely different than 30 years ago  In the past it was graduate level finance, and management theory, and then pretty much all management practicums, cases studies, etc.  Now, the first year is typically very structured, you get finance, economics, statistics, MARKETING, and global business background.  They give flexibility in what area people want to specialize in, start ups, finance, real estate, etc.  Somewhere along the line they throw in ethics.  They don't teach bad, but they do teach you how to create more demand for what you are selling and they do show that marketing is what keeps you alive and competitive after your intellectual property runs out, and that is is possible to completely rethink ways to retail products.  

 

I highly recommend Brainwashed - Tricks Companies Use to Manipulate Our Minds and Persuade Us to Buy by Martin Lindstrom.  He covers grocery stores and explains why things are located where they are, flowers up front for example, why they cook samples in the store (it really isn't so much to sell you on what they are cooking, it is to get food aromas in the aisles), why they give in store wine samples.  Where things are on the shelves, and a million other things including why there is music, how the music is selected, and what the proven market research shows about having background music.  Marketing, retailing and merchandising are where it is at if you want to complete in the food business.

 

Here is a link to a Forbes article on the Texas grocery chain, HEB, and how they use neuromarketing (I guess subliminal is a dirty word after it was discovered it was being used at movie theaters).  http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2014/01/28/h-e-b/

 

The article references Cialdini's book "Influence" which came out when I was in school and refers to his six principles of persuasion (influences).  Googling "Robert Cialdini" will get you to all of the back ground you want.  I highly recommend that book as well for anyone that sells a product, or service, or even themselves as part of getting a job.  These influences work, they are proven to work.  Knowing about them ahead of time helps you in negotiating, purchasing, and a lot of other real life situations.

 

Here is another blog article, this one about Whole Foods, by Lindstrom where he is pitching his book.  http://www.fastcompany.com/1779611/how-whole-foods-primes-you-shop  

 

Here is a brief quote from the article, which shows color and the brain help make your decision for you, and the markets know this, and they can manipulate your purchasing decision with it:

 

Speaking of fruit, you may think a banana is just a banana, but it's not. Dole and other banana growers have turned the creation of a banana into a science, in part to manipulate perceptions of freshness. In fact, they've issued a banana guide to greengrocers, illustrating the various color stages a banana can attain during its life cycle. Each color represents the sales potential for the banana in question. For example, sales records show that bananas with Pantone color 13-0858 (otherwise known as Vibrant Yellow) are less likely to sell than bananas with Pantone color 12-0752 (also called Buttercup), which is one grade warmer, visually, and seems to imply a riper, fresher fruit. Companies like Dole have analyzed the sales effects of all varieties of color and, as a result, plant their crops under conditions most ideal to creating the right 'color.' And as for apples? Believe it or not, my research found that while it may look fresh, the average apple you see in the supermarket is actually 14 months old.

 

It is "bad" that a grocery store intentionally use means to get subconsciously buy things you don't really need?  To buy more than you need?  I don't know the answer to that question.  I do know, that after reading the book when I went into stores, specifically HEB and Whole Foods I was aware of what was going on, I am not sure that I avoided what they were selling, but it least it was a conscious decision.  

 

Of course everyone knows that this is not just limited to grocery stores, it is in everything now, they have to do it to remain viable.  They, whoever is trying to influence you to make a decision one way or the other, use the Six Influences on you whether it is in your role as a food buyer, car buyer, and even as a voter.

 

Displaying fruit of a certain color works, and they know it works.  It isn't lying or misrepresentation, is it bad?

 

Is putting putting something in bread to make it taste better bad?  I guess it all depends on what it is, sour dough starter or rye, not so much, yoga mat, probably so.  

 

The two answers to this seem pretty clear to me.  Transparency and awareness.  I think GMO's should be labeled (transparency), that ingredients and nutritional information (in the information age) can be published on a web site, and there is a corresponding duty for consumers to make themselves aware.  Maybe only 10 people go to the website, it doesn't matter, if the information is there and it is honest, what else can you do.  Although having the nutritional information (fat grams) readily available at a McDonalds pretty much killed my desire for Big Macs and Quarter Pounders.

 

Fourteen month old apple or fries.  Hmmmmm.  "Two super size fries please."  

[CECAA850]

A few years ago I had a hankering for tacos.

 

Should have gone to Taco Cabana.  I wish we had one here.  I love their salsa bar.

[Mallette]

Should have gone to Taco Cabana.

 

The PAW dragged me to one kicking and screaming a few years ago while traveling.  I always avoid ANY chain while traveling except in serious hunger or passenger revolt.  It's gone on my "approved" list since and certainly has the best TexMex I am aware of in a chain environment. 

 

Several have had exemplary service and hospitality as well.

 

Dave

[Mallette]

Mark, what do you think about Taco Cabana? 

 

Dave

[Jeff Matthews]

  I can understand, though not like, the reasons to fill meat.  Even 5% would add up to big bucks over time.  But tortillas?  Gimme a break...  

 

The deal with breads is to add preservatives.  It really has nothing to do with cheapening them by way of adding filler.  THey are just trying to make a beautiful product that lasts long. 

[Mallette]

Wow.  I can see that.  I absolutely love the stuff and a superb pico de gallo with fresh cilantro is one of my favorites. 

 

As I am very fast food and chain resistive, I've never been to a Chipotle.  Actually, my favorite texmex around here comes off roach coaches which are always within a stones throw.

 

Dave

[Mallette]

THey are just trying to make a beautiful product that lasts long.

 

If that was their goal with the taco shells they have VERY distorted sense of beauty.  I took one look and really shouldn't even bothered to follow up with the bite that disgusted me totally. 

 

Dave