oldtimer Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 the aged, the blind, disabled, deaf and the rest of our handicapped community loose on you. They don't have freedom. Sure they do. They have the freedom not to be young, or see, or walk, or hear. If freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, they are ahead of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Dave Call it Google, call it the NSA, call it anything you want, but it is a central function. Nothing like an End of Timer. They've been with us for centuries...and they'll be with us for hundreds more. Almost got me. But rather than responding to that red herring which can be applied to everything from cell phones, to the grid (already under "their" control), to the health care system, to anything. It's just a car following the laws of supply, demand, advancing technology, and logic. It isn't a plot by aliens. I'd prefer do discuss the pros and cons of the technology than deal with doomsday scenarios. Dave Well, that's a dodge if ever I've seen one. Reading that I would almost guess you've been on another planet for the last 15 years. As authority of all kinds consolidate in government hands, and none of it looking benign, I don't know anyone with such a trusting, rosy outlook for the use or abuse of these powers. You haven't read about hackers gaining control of computers, holding them hostage? You haven't heard that the FBI has declared that citizens ought not have any right to privacy of their own data? Never heard of the "no drive, uh excuse me, FLY list", which had thousands of incorrect entries? It's not that I expect to change your mind, but your dismissal of the argument as " your kind of people " and "end timer" is a real display of head in the sand blindness about systems, politics, technology, and government. I know you've bragged extensively about not reading or watching news. That's no doubt what is keeping you from understanding the future risks of centralized authority over driving a car. (Shaking head) Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 At the same time you confuse freedom for the illusion of freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well, that's a dodge if ever I've seen one. Not going to play the "end of time" game. Look at the OP. "Poll & Prediction: Autonomous Car Equipment at 5k by 2019." Very simple premise and turned out to be not only not too optimistic but too pessimistic. Nothing in your conspiracy that hasn't played out all over the world many times over untold centuries and it has no place in this thread except as a red herring. Feel free to engage other with it, but I am not playing. As I expect you know by means other than my post count, this isn't my first rodeo. Elon Musk isn't part of a conspiracy to do anything except make enough money to get to Mars. End of story. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I didn't refer to any conspiracies. Good try. You've been writing about all the glories of this as though there is no downside. Your personal enthusiasm is understood and not on question, but your generalizations about the wonders to the rest of society are overblown and certainly fair game for challenge. Or maybe this is your personal soapbox and other opinions are not legitimate? A lot of people in this thread are not enthusiastic supporters of self driving cars. Your dismissive attitude to the objections, as though everyone not embracing this must be sick, seemed to be inviting a rebuttal. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 O brave new world, that has such people in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 so juicy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think it is a pretty cool technology. Sure, it can be abused, and it probably will be. However... The potential - even actual - abuse of such technology does not necessarily lead to its rejection and uselessness. Joe, you decried all the problems with internet hacking and monitoring, etc. These are all real concerns, but... Here you are! You are on the internet. Lapping it up, knowing fully-well the "dangers" of which you speak. Why aren't you more careful? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 You have to live in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 You have to live in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato Cool song! I have it in my play list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Gotta love that Mosrite sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Gosh, 24 pages and increasing. Let me say that my world is the Chicago Loop where the arteries dump cars into gridlock. It could be that all the autos and CTA buses talk to each other and all locations are known and predicted. The big problem though is pedestrians. For example, quite a few CTA buses run south on LaSalle and turn right onto Adams Street. But they can't because of the swarms of pedestrians messing it up with crossing and blocking the flow of wheeled traffic. Therefore, to make any system work, there is going to have to be a scheme to control pedestrians. Maybe gates and police, but that is pretty unworkable. We'd need a cultural change where people actually obey traffic lights. Let me add that as soon as a system to alleviate gridlock at rush hour (say, 8:00 to 9:00 a.m.) comes on line, more and more people would decide to travel in just those hours and overload the system. WMcD Edited October 20, 2015 by William F. Gil McDermott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Or create pedestrian overpasses. Can't be that hard to do. And safer for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Gotta love that Mosrite sound. I never had heard of Mosrite until your mention of it. I just checked it out on Youtube, and yes, it's a very distinctive sound I have always liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think it is a pretty cool technology. Sure, it can be abused, and it probably will be. However... The potential - even actual - abuse of such technology does not necessarily lead to its rejection and uselessness. Joe, you decried all the problems with internet hacking and monitoring, etc. These are all real concerns, but... Here you are! You are on the internet. Lapping it up, knowing fully-well the "dangers" of which you speak. Why aren't you more careful? Yes, I am on the internet, and I also have a cell phone, and a credit card. Like everyone else, I'm sucked into the technology tsunami of mainstream life. That doesn't mean I don't see the downside and risks. There's hardly a week goes by that I don't curse one of these technologies. It's not easy tho live a 1975 lifestyle in 2015. Even though I'd be quite happy with that level of technology. Make sense? The technology tsunami really does sweep up everyone. My point was to say that MORE of this consolidation to government is going to bring lots of unintended consequences. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) A lot of people in this thread are not enthusiastic supporters of self driving cars. Your dismissive attitude to the objections, as though everyone not embracing this must be sick, seemed to be inviting a rebuttal. Bait, bait, bait. I again refer you to the original post. Yes, I was surprised...actually amazed...at the resistance and stated both fact and opinion in rebuttal until I realized it was time wasted and that it was simply making people mad. So, I went back to the original premise: 5k AV within 5 years. Happened in two. Thread complete. Take it down whatever path to whatever gloom and doom scenario you want. Time will tell. For me, I am just realizing that, given my current vehicles have 5 or more years on them I'll have one of these as my next vehicle and that my son's first car will also be so equipped. Only freedom it's going to cost him as that I'll be insisting that he USE it so we can feel more secure about his safety. I've not indoctrinated him at all, and several years ago he expressed to me the same rational fear that I had a his age realizing I'd be responsible for a ton or more of moving mass soon. He's delighted to know that by the time he has children they will listen in amazement at his telling of how humans used to drive in total chaos and how thousands about thousands wound up dead and injured from it. He is objective. Anyway...carry on. You have the con. Dave Edited October 20, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Therefore, to make any system work, there is going to have to be a scheme to control pedestrians. WMcD Instructions for PEDs will be piped through the cell phones. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well it's not AV by my definition, Dave...it's still "just" a driver aid. Let me know when you can type your location into Google maps (or the equivalent), and the car takes you there without any additional input or attention required by the driver. I don't think I'm the only one holding such a strict view on the definition of "autonomy." I'm using the term "driver aid" for what you're referencing, but I'm open to alternatives if you think something would be more descriptive. And if you are stubborn on using "autonomous", then what word should I use for my definition? I hate semantics, but there's clearly a communication breakdown here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Oh, and I want to race your Tesla around a track too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well it's not AV by my definition, Dave...it's still "just" a driver aid. It is by their definition, and it works for me. Actually, all articles I read used the term. If one wants to get silly you can insist that it has to fuel itself, take itself to the garage, and air up its own tires to be truly "autonomous." I think no driver intervention while underway except in exceptional circumstances is generally accepted. It's been made clear that the function requiring the occupants hands be on the wheel is entirely to acclimate people to the idea. I haven't seen fine details, but I rather suspect the Tesla is quite able to follow navigation. Compared to the rest, that's no trick at all. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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