Gilbert Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I prefer to drive, not ride shotgun - to human or computer. I would rather drive cross-country than fly. I would really like if we had one lane where a guy with a specialized license could drive upwards of 120mph and not have morons in it. In Texas there are parts where qualified drivers should be able to exceed 180. Definitely!!!! I'd rather drive myself too. I enjoy the drive, and feeling every little road imperfection or nuance through the steering wheel. But regardless of how good I think my abilities are, I know I can't touch the level of someone like Sebastian Loeb, and Ivan's was just plain crazy.... would love to ride shotgun just to watch the lines and rev's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) A Tesla S software update expected in about 3 months will provide hands off driving on well marked highways. S design is several years old...Elon is a forward thinker. Faster, and faster... Dave Edited March 20, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted March 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 22, 2015 As I said before, the technology has been demonstrated and in place since the late 90s. It is a matter of cost. Safety doesn't sell, never has and never wwill to the average consumer. Why are there now three point safety belts for every occupant position in a vehicle? Because of federal law mandating it. How much are the initial AVs going to cost? Apparently the cost of a Tesla S. Here is an article from last year discussing cost as a factor in the demand for AVs and in terms of sales. The head guy on automation from Delphi is quoted. http://m.fastcompany.com/3025722/will-you-ever-be-able-to-afford-a-self-driving-car The article also touches on a very important study just done every year, the average cost of a car. The average price of a car now exceeds the average income earnet in the US can afford. The technology will not take off until they can get the price down to being what the average new car buyer can afford through price, incentives like tax credits or subsidies, and/or state or federal mandates, but probably a combination thereof. It will most certainly happen, Ford will offer it in 2017, and a small percentage will buy it. More will buy it if you can use HOV lanes with it, and still more will buy it with a tax credit. 10, 20, 30 years? It is all a function of price and public policy makers (read legislators). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I believe it has been mentioned that instead of actually buying one of these things, a different model can apply. Paying for a subscription to the service (fleet owner) eliminates the "buy my car" trap with its associated debt that most succumb to. Imagine only paying for your actual use of transportation (on a demand basis) instead of purchasing a depreciating asset. I am halfway there since I only buy used for cash. Those of us in this position will evaluate the subject a little more subjectively than the ones addicted to that new car smell. I say a little more because I love driving my cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted March 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 22, 2015 I believe it has been mentioned that instead of actually buying one of these things, a different model can apply. Paying for a subscription to the service (fleet owner) eliminates the "buy my car" trap with its associated debt that most succumb to. Imagine only paying for your actual use of transportation (on a demand basis) instead of purchasing a depreciating asset. I am halfway there since I only buy used for cash. Those of us in this position will evaluate the subject a little more subjectively than the ones addicted to that new car smell. I say a little more because I love driving my cars. I agree with that model whole heartedly. But the automakers won't and so it would have to be government run or subsidized, which is socialization, which freaks people out here. We have a private version in Austin, Cars2go which I have seen in tge Metroplex, it is relatively expensive. Perfect for high-rise dweller that has everything they need close by and needs it for occasional journey here or there, but they charge by minute and Uber might even be cheeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted March 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think the head guy at Delphi is pretty realistic about when a fully automated model will be available to the public and he sees more of a transition. http://www.cthreereport.com/connected-car-council-member-profile-john-absmeier-director-of-delphi-labs-silicon-valley-delphi-automotive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just think of how much gas you can suck up at 180 mph. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think his comparision to ABS isn't realistic. There was nothing tangible or experiential to it for the average driver. You had to have them and then have them activate in an iffy situation, and then realize what they likely did for you to really appreciate them. I certainly remember the first time mine came into play. However, until then, it was just a TLA on the dashboard. Most while be sold the first time they are in a friends vehicle and the system takes over on a freeway while the "driver" kicks back and joins the conversation. And, in spite of the pushback here, I believe there are many more like me who will be early adopters due to safety concerns. Cars are simply a utility to me. I enjoy a bit of a rush with them in my 20s and 30s with an Alfa Romeo spyder convertible (canary yellow), and a Fiat X19, and a couple of others. But as I got older I started purchasing for safety first, longevity second, and utility last at the lowest cost. In this case, I will be willing to spend much more for the same vehicle with maximum autonomy due to the safety it will bring. I cannot imagine doing less for those I care about. Obviously, others mileage varies and that's fine. But I still think the handwriting is on the wall. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I love those tired old lines of bullshit that you use. Such as "I cannot imagine doing less for those I care about ". Your autonomous car will not stop an inattentive driver from smashing your autonomous car and injuring or killing those that you care about. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 In his future there are no inattentive drivers. All cars will be autonomous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Only when my daily commute looks like this, will I ever even consider an autonomous automobile,...... maybe. Edited March 22, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Move to Dallas, Atlanta, or Honolulu and you are there my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Here's one of VW's latest autonomous prototypes, they can be found testing throughout Mexicio, and Central and South America. There are millions of them on the road right now..... This particular model shows off the HighTech unibody cab structure, they've gone completely away from the ox cart and wooden spoke wheels. Next year they'll be implementing the Carrot Stick option, which improves acceleration and lane changing. Edited March 22, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Safety first! Which in this case must mean air bags on that ***? (donkey?) Edited March 22, 2015 by oldtimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Your autonomous car will not stop an inattentive driver from smashing your autonomous car and injuring or killing those that you care about. Yes, it will, or at least ensure minimum undesirable event. Not sure why you are such a non-believer in technology. If you want everything handling manually in a hospital your survival chances are going down. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Had to remind myself where you live, Keith. Houston is different. The situation is totally beyond human control at rush hour, and I've seen it over and over for a decade. Chain reactions even the dumbest computer running Windows 8.1 could easily avoid that happen because at least one in 10 or less drivers here is a complete moron going 20 mph over reasonable and prudent, switching lanes where there is no room to do so with any degree of safety, and never signaling anything. If I lived in Pettycoat Junction I might not feel such a sense of urgency. But I don't. I drive at the prevailing speed of traffic, stay in the middle lane, and yield to the right anytime some fool comes up to within half a car length and stays there...which happened daily. If I had to slam on the brakes there is no way in hell a human could respond fast enough to prevent what happens each and every day here in one or more places. I'd rather live where you do. I am a small town boy and want out of here as fast as I can retire. But I have to live with it a few years longer...if I can survive it. And the minute something comes along that will increase those odds I'll be all over it. You seem to have some deep knowledge that isn't otherwise available that all the test, reports, and projections are a giant conspiracy and this technology really doesn't work. I am not privy to that. Given what's at stake liability wise I find it hard to believe that these companies would sell something that WILL destroy them if what you say is true. Even the commonly available adaptive cruise, lane control, and automatic braking have yet to generate anything but praise from those whose lives and property have been saved. The only thing we are waiting on is these existing technologies to be tied together so they are able to do what they already do well even better. Do you have proof these technologies are a fraud? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Your autonomous car will not stop an inattentive driver from smashing your autonomous car and injuring or killing those that you care about. Yes, it will, or at least ensure minimum undesirable event. Not sure why you are such a non-believer in technology. If you want everything handling manually in a hospital your survival chances are going down. Dave Uh, no it won't. NO ONE involved in this industry has claimed autonomous vehicles will stop such events and there have been repeated discussions that the ethics you espouse will not be a consideration in the programming of the software systems. Insurance companies say there will be MORE catastrophic incidents. There was simple situation discussed... your car recognizes it is going to be involved in an accident with one of two vehicles. One of them is a SUV while the other is a tiny car. (It of course doesn't recognize any difference nor does it know the passengers in each vehicle.) Which does it choose? You might consider a number of factors. There may be less damage (to your car) associated with hitting the tiny car but its passengers will be killed. The occupants of the SUV theoretically have more protection and will survive the accident but your car will suffer far more damage and you may be killed. There is no easy answer but your car won't be remotely concerned about your safety or the safety of other vehicles; it will be concerned about IT'S safety. It only takes a few minutes to identify a multitude of circumstances that will result in your car being involved in or triggering an accident; unless teleportation technology is arriving concurrent with your fully-autonomous car, accidents and fatalities are going nowhere. Edited March 22, 2015 by Autarchist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Do you have proof these technologies are a fraud? I believe that's the point Keith (me too) made to you,.....as in the flip-side of your question above. You have no proof, only the word of experts selling the snake serum oooops, I mean "technology" to the believers. Unless of course OldTimer is right, and your dreaming big (or is that small?) for a world with only autonomous cars. Edited March 22, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The point is that it` does not work unless every car on the road is autonomous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Uh, no it won't. NO ONE involved in this industry has claimed autonomous vehicles will stop such events and there have been repeated discussions that the ethics you espouse will not be a consideration in the programming of the software systems. Insurance companies say there will be MORE catastrophic incidents. Please provide links that will educate me. I don't pick and choose and I've seen nothing like that. You are suggesting these companies are determined to commit suicide. Seems a bit strange. Since the Tesla S is going autonomous in 3 months I guess we'll see how long Elon stays out of jail. I suppose these catastrophes will start happening immediately as there are well over 50,000 of them on the road. Proof one way or the other will come pretty soon. Dave Edited March 22, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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