ClaudeJ1 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Below that, it's a sealed box 15" woofer radiating into a very tight corner with a lot less gain. Go build a Quarter Pie horn, put it under the Belle and get a free Octave down to 50 hz. with the same woofer. Plus you will raise you tweeters to better ear level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Always up to something aren't you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 But it's a good lookin 2 1/2 ft horn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Below that, it's a sealed box 15" woofer radiating into a very tight corner with a lot less gain. Go build a Quarter Pie horn, put it under the Belle and get a free Octave down to 50 hz. with the same woofer. Plus you will raise you tweeters to better ear level. I'm sure the Quarter Pie horn would be an improvement, but just a note: my Belle (used as a center between Khorns) is flush mounted in the wall (it is in a bump-out in the house, but flush with the wall as seen from the front), has a slight peak at 60 Hz, then drops some (REW; I can't find the [old] graphs; measurements vary with mic position, but some degree of 60 Hz peak is present at multiple positions). Audyssey measures the F3 as being 40 Hz (before EQ). I'm not sure the Audyssey measurement is legit, because by ear the Belle is considerably less robust at 40 than the Khorns. There is little or nothing below 40 Hz with the Belle. The Khorns, on the other hand, actually have a peak at 43 Hz (as well as a small dip at about 70 Hz) in my room, and respond down to about 24Hz, with much attenuation. So, my Belle goes lower than I expected, and lower than the specs would indicate. Eventually, though, I'll get one or more horn-loaded subs. Edited June 16, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I made this post at the risk of sounding like a rabble rouser, which I am. LOL. Had all the heritage Klispch and many many of the more recent ones (watched KG-4's being routed at the factory 30 years ago) and bought sold so many. Let's just say the bass above 100 Hz. is far more important than the bass below, AND it's much cheaper since good subwoofage is expensive in terms of weight, size, and watts. That said it's ALL ROOM DEPENDENT. I'm amazed and how good those 2 1/2 foot horns sounded (used LaScalas in a DJ system for years) until you compare them to longer horns. It's ALL RELATIVE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Below that, it's a sealed box 15" woofer radiating into a very tight corner with a lot less gain. Go build a Quarter Pie horn, put it under the Belle and get a free Octave down to 50 hz. with the same woofer. Plus you will raise you tweeters to better ear level. what'd you meant "the same woofer" ...?! life the actual same one in the Belle or just another pair of the same model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 what'd you meant "the same woofer" ...?! life the actual same one in the Belle or just another pair of the same model? Pull the K-33's from the Belles and put in Quarter Pies. Then you will have some REAL bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 what'd you meant "the same woofer" ...?! life the actual same one in the Belle or just another pair of the same model? Pull the K-33's from the Belles and put in Quarter Pies. Then you will have some REAL bass. How big are these again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They are 4 feet square (minus radius), and 17 inches tall. If you look at my avatar the QP horn has my trombone inside of it. They really do run circles around K-horns etc. bass wise. I would love to A B them with MWMs sometimes. The design is similar, but the QP is shorter and has less of a bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 what'd you meant "the same woofer" ...?! life the actual same one in the Belle or just another pair of the same model? Pull the K-33's from the Belles and put in Quarter Pies. Then you will have some REAL bass. Claude is just pushing theses because of the royalty checks we have to pay him when we build them. Claude, you have been receiving my checks, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would really love to, but they just won't fit in my 600 sq ft apartment... any creative ways of mounting them that will accommodate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would really love to, but they just won't fit in my 600 sq ft apartment... any creative ways of mounting them that will accommodate? vertical as opposed to flat on the floor in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would really love to, but they just won't fit in my 600 sq ft apartment... any creative ways of mounting them that will accommodate? vertical as opposed to flat on the floor in the corner. That actually does work. My two side QPs are oriented that way with the woofers firing down. Whenever I get around to building the 2 for the back channels I am planning on hanging them from the ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I would really love to, but they just won't fit in my 600 sq ft apartment... any creative ways of mounting them that will accommodate? vertical as opposed to flat on the floor in the corner. That actually does work. My two side QPs are oriented that way with the woofers firing down. Whenever I get around to building the 2 for the back channels I am planning on hanging them from the ceiling. Ok, please confirm: so the 1/4 Pie works in an orientation where the the unit is on it's side, with the woofer facing down AND the broad side close to the front wall so the horn opening is towards the centre of the wall ?? This would only extend into the room about 20" while taking up about 8' of front wall space? (that is the mouth of the horn does not need to face the listener.) Edited June 20, 2015 by Stevenarrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Which Claude are you now?...http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/17/173285.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I would really love to, but they just won't fit in my 600 sq ft apartment... any creative ways of mounting them that will accommodate? vertical as opposed to flat on the floor in the corner. That actually does work. My two side QPs are oriented that way with the woofers firing down.Whenever I get around to building the 2 for the back channels I am planning on hanging them from the ceiling. Ok, please confirm: so the 1/4 Pie works in an orientation where the the unit is on it's side, with the woofer facing down AND the broad side close to the front wall so the horn opening is towards the centre of the wall ?? This would only extend into the room about 20" while taking up about 8' of front wall space? (that is the mouth of the horn does not need to face the listener.) No, the mouth needs to face you. Not sure you would get the results you want with them parallel to the wall and facing each other. You can save floor space by turning them vertically but they are still going to intrude into the room. I have a basement theater so I have the space dedicated. No way I would put them in the living room. The sound is special though and worth figuring out a place to put them. Edited June 20, 2015 by tromprof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Got it. i am in the market for a new place to live. I'll keep this in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Main lesson: Brilliance of the K'horn design. Getting down from the Belle's bottom to include the next 5 whole steps to complete the octave to C1 can't be done any other way with better size, efficiency, or cost. He said that that 98% of all music could be reproduced accurately with a range extending to C1 and he was quite correct. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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