oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have seen MANY Oxycontin addicts become extremely aggressive, so I don't know where you are coming off with this one? That's because it's not as good as heroin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 My paranoid thoughts tell me that if the streets become flooded with pills after this new regulation then the government is selling the pills on the streets. Remember the Contra scandal? Trade arms to countries that manufacture drugs for drugs and then sell the drugs to Americans for huge profits. The government can't make much money from the drugs if the healthcare and drug manufacturing industry are hogging up all the profits. The probably have been selling the heroin too that's why they have been down playing it and saying more people die from pills LOL. Population control and it keeps people occupied while they rake in the cash. On the nature of people just wanting to use opiates for recreational use I don't see a problem with that. Alcohol has little to no medicinal properties and it's legal for recreational use. Alcohol is a far worse drug then opiates. At least opiates have a very good medicinal property. Didn't we learn from prohibition that making things illegal and harder to get just creates more organized crime. Stupid history always repeating itself. Dude, Lay off smoking pot, it is showing! No far fetched government conspiracy theories please! I have been trying to help my buddy with his addiction for years! I used to go to his house and hide a daily dose in a different place for a weeks time and call him on a daily basis to tell him where that days meds were located. I used to even remove switch plates and hide a days bag inside or put them under a floor mat in one of his cars, all kinds of stuff. I am privy to how and who he has bought and sold meds and how the meds are being acquired. There is no government smoking gun here! Alcohol works well as a pain killer if nothing else is available. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I don't know Dean, there are lots of cases of alcohol poisoning. No way near the numbers, you really have to load up on a lot of alcohol fast to die from alcohol poisoning. More often times than not, you will pass out and puke before you can reach those levels. You are just as likely if not more so to pass out and drown on your own vomit by aspirating it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 People aren't regularly overdosing from alcohol, so it's not the same from that perspective. We have alcohol related deaths, but you don't have to worry about someone's respiratory system shutting down after "abusing" the 12 pack. That was not my point cranky man. People need peaceful intoxication and mind experience(high,etc), but booze doesn't provide that. Drunk is not the same as high. In the social experience drunk leads to too much aggression and violence. Home wreckers for example, spouse abuse. Booze is not useful in the way historic drugs are... General rule. Lol!!! Always done exceptions. Obvious im not a believer in booze!!! Lol i think we be better with no booze and plenty of more tame drugs and even hallucinogens for some use. More in line with old history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 So then it just becomes alcohol related I suppose. BTW sloth, Iran contra was about selling arms to Iran through Israel (at first) and then sending the money after everyone got their cut to the contras in Nicaragua. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 What's a "pill mill" - suppose I could look it up.The urine testing and random pill counts was supposed to stop the practice of people selling their scripts.My son says the $1 a mg. is off. He says it depends on quality and demand. That's what lower strength Norco sells for, but that Percocet and OxyAnything goes for more. A few months ago we made a quick trip to Meijer, and he read me the riot act for leaving my prescription bottle in plain view in the console. He said I could have lost not just the prescription but my window too. My brain just doesn't work that way, it's hard to imagine people doing stuff like that in the area we live -- which is ridiculously boring and low crime.Don't nursing homes and hospice have protocols in place to prevent stuff like that from happening?Dean,Think supply and demand, you are 2.5 hours away, a different market.Oxycontin here brings $1 a mg for one pill, that is top of the mark! They can be bought for 25% up to 50% off that price in bulk!Urine tests are useless! Just as for peeing clean. you can sneak in dirty urine as well in a small vile or bag kept close to the groin to preserve body temperature. They need to DEMAND blood testing!Nursing homes are not the problem! When a patient is terminal and on hospice care, the dosages are uped the closer you get to end of life, so one patient may have several scripts at once when they die. The hospice nurse is the one who talks with the Doctors and ups the prscriptions. When the patient dies, it takes two nurses to count the narcotics and bag them. They do not keep a running count from the time the prescription is written and the nurse is not always there, so family or anyone could steel pills. The two Hospices only count and bag up what is left to be disposed of. All you need is two nurses working together to foil this system. Recently, I know of a husband and wife her were both Hospice nurses working together that were doing this.Your car window is the least of your worries! These people will follow you home and watch you to pattern when you get your script. People have been killed over a script.Roger Roger, This is not true in all cases. My daughter is a hospice RN and a hard count must be performed each time scheduled narcotics are refilled/prescribed. A final count is also performed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 What's a "pill mill" - suppose I could look it up.The urine testing and random pill counts was supposed to stop the practice of people selling their scripts.My son says the $1 a mg. is off. He says it depends on quality and demand. That's what lower strength Norco sells for, but that Percocet and OxyAnything goes for more. A few months ago we made a quick trip to Meijer, and he read me the riot act for leaving my prescription bottle in plain view in the console. He said I could have lost not just the prescription but my window too. My brain just doesn't work that way, it's hard to imagine people doing stuff like that in the area we live -- which is ridiculously boring and low crime.Don't nursing homes and hospice have protocols in place to prevent stuff like that from happening?Dean,Think supply and demand, you are 2.5 hours away, a different market.Oxycontin here brings $1 a mg for one pill, that is top of the mark! They can be bought for 25% up to 50% off that price in bulk!Urine tests are useless! Just as for peeing clean. you can sneak in dirty urine as well in a small vile or bag kept close to the groin to preserve body temperature. They need to DEMAND blood testing!Nursing homes are not the problem! When a patient is terminal and on hospice care, the dosages are uped the closer you get to end of life, so one patient may have several scripts at once when they die. The hospice nurse is the one who talks with the Doctors and ups the prscriptions. When the patient dies, it takes two nurses to count the narcotics and bag them. They do not keep a running count from the time the prescription is written and the nurse is not always there, so family or anyone could steel pills. The two Hospices only count and bag up what is left to be disposed of. All you need is two nurses working together to foil this system. Recently, I know of a husband and wife her were both Hospice nurses working together that were doing this.Your car window is the least of your worries! These people will follow you home and watch you to pattern when you get your script. People have been killed over a script.Roger Roger, This is not true in all cases. My daughter is a hospice RN and a hard count must be performed each time scheduled narcotics are refilled/prescribed. A final count is also performed. Christy, True enough, it will vary from location to location, but here in Ohio, they dispose of the meds, so if two are in on it??? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I remember when ecstasy was legal. If everyone who is healthy enough to take it would once or twice, then yes Rodney King, we all could just get along... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I've been afraid to ask, because I don't want to bring out any pain, but I'm really curious - what happened with your wife Joe, from the caregiving end of things. Cranky I have been siting here for some time considering your question, weather to PM or just reply here. It is the Lounge & we are mostly all among friends, so I will do the best I can to describe the story in hopes it my help some one else. My Pat was one of the happiest, loving people you would ever hope to meet. Nothing put a bigger smile on her face then pleasing me & her children & helping anyone in need , giving strangers children food & xmas gifts. She had a true joy for life & was a devoted Christian, still loving me even though I am basically an Agnostic. Her health issues began to appear some 20 years ago, at that time there was no medical test for or any information by the medical field for Fibro Malegia . She saw many doctors, most told her she was just depressed & needed to see a shrink. As the year's (decade) went by Fibro became identified & recognized as a ligament disease. Doctors began giving her Vicodin, Zanex & mussel relaxers (Soma). Then the govt got involved -& she was sent to the type of pain clinics you describe in your earlier post making her feel like a criminal & addict. This had a very negative effect because she was so overly sensitive. Fibro attacks the joint & nerve system, at times her whole arm & shoulder would turn purple with inflammation, little to no sleep for years. Then the Lupus attacked her weakened body-- continuing the downward spiral although never hospitalized... Bottom line is it just grinds you down! She said repeated over the past few years a dog should not have to live like this! She mentioned suicide occasionally, but always said she couldn't take her own life because of her christian beliefs. So I did not ever really believe she would do it, plus she loved her 2 grown children & me so very much & life itself -- but obviously it got to the breaking point. Every day I still ask my self could I have done or said something that would have changed the outcome, & I am sure I will still be asking those questions the rest of my life. As I said a few month ago, hug & tell your loved ones what your heart says as if today was the last day, and in between Enjoy the Music my friends. So very tragic,vry tragic. Very brave for you to tell story here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 So then it just becomes alcohol related I suppose. BTW sloth, Iran contra was about selling arms to Iran through Israel (at first) and then sending the money after everyone got their cut to the contras in Nicaragua. You left out the cocaine and pot from Columbia and Venezuela to sell for the cash to purchase the arms to send to Nicaragua. and that is all I will say, so don't ask how I know it to be true. I never, ever want to re-live that part of my life ever, ever, ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) That's no help, nor proof. PM me if you like. The arms were sent to Iran. The money was sent to the contras. Or was it? Edited July 22, 2015 by oldtimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I've been afraid to ask, because I don't want to bring out any pain, but I'm really curious - what happened with your wife Joe, from the caregiving end of things. Cranky I have been siting here for some time considering your question, weather to PM or just reply here. It is the Lounge & we are mostly all among friends, so I will do the best I can to describe the story in hopes it my help some one else. My Pat was one of the happiest, loving people you would ever hope to meet. Nothing put a bigger smile on her face then pleasing me & her children & helping anyone in need , giving strangers children food & xmas gifts. She had a true joy for life & was a devoted Christian, still loving me even though I am basically an Agnostic. Her health issues began to appear some 20 years ago, at that time there was no medical test for or any information by the medical field for Fibro Malegia . She saw many doctors, most told her she was just depressed & needed to see a shrink. As the year's (decade) went by Fibro became identified & recognized as a ligament disease. Doctors began giving her Vicodin, Zanex & mussel relaxers (Soma). Then the govt got involved -& she was sent to the type of pain clinics you describe in your earlier post making her feel like a criminal & addict. This had a very negative effect because she was so overly sensitive. Fibro attacks the joint & nerve system, at times her whole arm & shoulder would turn purple with inflammation, little to no sleep for years. Then the Lupus attacked her weakened body-- continuing the downward spiral although never hospitalized... Bottom line is it just grinds you down! She said repeated over the past few years a dog should not have to live like this! She mentioned suicide occasionally, but always said she couldn't take her own life because of her christian beliefs. So I did not ever really believe she would do it, plus she loved her 2 grown children & me so very much & life itself -- but obviously it got to the breaking point. Every day I still ask my self could I have done or said something that would have changed the outcome, & I am sure I will still be asking those questions the rest of my life. As I said a few month ago, hug & tell your loved ones what your heart says as if today was the last day, and in between Enjoy the Music my friends. I am walking the same path. In the last few months, I had a friend that I never thought could have taken his own life, do so. The MS got to be more than he could take. I have RA rather than Lupus, and also Fibromyalgia. My mother died at 65 due to RA and its complications, my children also have autoimmune disorders. I think the worst part is that people look at you and think you don't LOOK sick, so you just must be faking to get meds. Methotrexate and Cymzia are not fun medications to deal with, along with NSAIDs and sulfa derivatives, and on and on. Thanks for sharing Cornman, more people need to know how autoimmune disease affects peoples' lives. It is not just those that have disease, it is all their loved ones and caregivers that have to deal with it. Thoughts of peace of mind to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How do you contract these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 That's no help, nor proof. PM me if you like. The arms were sent to Iran. The money was sent to the contras. Or was it? Missles were sent to Iran, we armed the Contras to overthrow the Sandinistas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 That's no help, nor proof. PM me if you like. The arms were sent to Iran. The money was sent to the contras. Or was it? Missles were sent to Iran, we armed the Contras to overthrow the Sandinistas. It's all so beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How do you contract these things? The cause is not well understood. The mechanisms are better understood. Most seem to be triggered by an environmental cause (virus, chemical exposure), but the genetics have to also be in place. It is multiple genes that have to be just right for the trigger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) I remember when ecstasy was legal. If everyone who is healthy enough to take it would once or twice, then yes Rodney King, we all could just get along... for many thousands of years mind-benting drugs were a significent part of spirit life of mankind. many say modern man has utterly lost tuch with this understanding of purpose of drugs....its not hottubs sex starlets &rockroll....it was more kin to religius practices...spiritule practice. no one seems to remember. people today are in psych pain...human pain...suffering. im not talkngin about medical...but socially. its why so many millions are seeking drug experience. it is natural. by withholding this experience...control is enhanced over little people. u seem tuned into this. Edited July 22, 2015 by jo56steph74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How do you contract these things? The cause is not well understood. The mechanisms are better understood. Most seem to be triggered by an environmental cause (virus, chemical exposure), but the genetics have to also be in place. It is multiple genes that have to be just right for the trigger. many many many people suffer with this kind of diseases and they are viewed with mostly skeptcisn by so many others. bog problem. sad how this is unfolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have no idea. That's why I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How do you contract these things? The cause is not well understood. The mechanisms are better understood. Most seem to be triggered by an environmental cause (virus, chemical exposure), but the genetics have to also be in place. It is multiple genes that have to be just right for the trigger. One of my best cruising buddies from High School is in a Nursing Home 2 miles up the road. He has MS, is 51 years old and can't walk even with a walker. He is to afraid to even try because he has fallen to many times. He has lost control over his bowels and bladder, and has absolutely no short term memory. He remembers who I am, and things that we did way back when, but wont remember if you have been there an hour after you leave. His wife is a POS and could be taking care of him as she has no job and lives in a house on his dads property for free. She doesn't even go see him and put the moves on another friend in front of his wife. My Buddies dad wont kick her out because he doesn't want to loose contact with his grown grand kids that don't live there anymore. MS can be one nasty disease! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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