Upping the Bass Klipsch Belles?

[Wolfbane]

Short of playing Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture with Bells and Cannons in an infinite loop is there a technical way to up the bass response on my 2 speaker system Belle's without adding in a separate sub-woofer or 3rd channel? 

 

The only time I really miss my Cornwall's is when I'm playing some good old rock n roll loudly.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Wolfbane

[jimjimbo]

Check out the capacitor thread, it's a hoot....Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

I would imagine that you've already played with speaker placement, room acoustics, etc.

 

Just to piggyback on your question, I would wonder what placing K43's in a pair of Belles would do?

[jason str]

K 43 will make your bass issues worse but liven up the midrange.

 

Add a proper horn loaded subwoofer for best results or another option is to port the cabinet.

[Wolfbane]

Check out the capacitor thread, it's a hoot....Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

I would imagine that you've already played with speaker placement, room acoustics, etc.

 

Just to piggyback on your question, I would wonder what placing K43's in a pair of Belles would do?

 

WRT placement; I'm pretty limited on physical movement (including increasing the degree of angle much) of these speakers as all such movements require the getting the wife's good housekeeping seal of approval (the @ssclowns on the house remodeling shows all the women around here watch never have a pair of good n' large speakers, they all have either tiny wireless Bose speakers or speakers in the walls and ceilings or worst of all Bang and Olufsen integrated crap). She hated the Cornwall's I use to own. But at least the Cornwall's came with closed backs that I could of veneered.

 

An internal change within the inner dimension of the Belle speaker itself is the preferred method.

[jason str]

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

[minermark]

Yeah, give them to your Wife/kid, i just happen to have a pair of McMs available (Man Speakers), $2K, p/u only.

Or EAW stacks are also available, easily get your neighbors complaining about your Bass, no problem.

[minermark]

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

And here i thought i WAS being the smart (but Logical) azz.

[jason str]

 

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

And here i thought i WAS being the smart (but Logical) azz.

 

 

I put up with a pink bathroom, flowered wallpaper, excessive shopping, ETC. I feel the least she could do is live with my excessively large loudspeakers & a couple bad habbits.

 

I'm single again, oh well.  Better luck next time, relationships should be give & take IMHO & not my way or the highway.

[Wolfbane]

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

 

Tried that a couple of times. Declared her as 'defective' and returned her to her mother. Both times after I quick check-up she was declared as functioning properly and returned in less than 24 hours.

 

 

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

And here i thought i WAS being the smart (but Logical) azz.

 

 

Pushing logic too far just means you could end up awaking dead in the morning.

 

 

Keep the speakers & upgrade the wife.

And here i thought i WAS being the smart (but Logical) azz.

 

 

I put up with a pink bathroom, flowered wallpaper, excessive shopping, ETC. I feel the least she could do is live with my excessively large loudspeakers & a couple bad habbits.

 

I'm single again, oh well.  Better luck next time, relationships should be give & take IMHO & not my way or the highway.

 

You may want to consider a reevaluation of just on whose 'highway' you've been bounced off of. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Wolfbane

[JohnA]

Short of playing Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture with Bells and Cannons in an infinite loop is there a technical way to up the bass response on my 2 speaker system Belle's without adding in a separate sub-woofer or 3rd channel? 

 

The only time I really miss my Cornwall's is when I'm playing some good old rock n roll loudly.

 

If you cannot, or have, put them in the corners, EQ is your best bet.  While I'm sure the LaScala style ported add-on would help (a little bit), the appearance of an industrial looking LaScala is not much worse with a ported box under it, a Belle should look horrific done that way. 

 

You may wish to change the woofer to one with a higher power rating and buy a bigger power amp to prevent distortion. 

[Marvel]

Oh, John, you COULD make a really nice looking box to go under the Belle, or go to the trouble of enclosing the top (then no one would know).

 

Bruce

[pzannucci]

If you are close to a wall, the port mod similar to the La Scala would be helpful, ported to the rear.  Made out of the same color veneer as the Belles, it should look nice and raise the Belles up where they would likely sound better.  If you have to port to the front, do the veneer but use a slotted port all the way across the bottom (probably about an inch in height).  It won't look bad like a round black holes.

 

You could then as wdecho says by dropping everything else down (if you have enough power - look up baffle step compensation for an idea) or eq electronically to load the lower port output response up.

 

For the ultimate, do all the above and take John's suggestion of a more powerful woofer.  That would make a significant change with the eq and port(s).

[Wolfbane]

If you are close to a wall, the port mod similar to the La Scala would be helpful, ported to the rear.  Made out of the same color veneer as the Belles, it should look nice and raise the Belles up where they would likely sound better.  If you have to port to the front, do the veneer but use a slotted port all the way across the bottom (probably about an inch in height).  It won't look bad like a round black holes.

 

You could then as wdecho says by dropping everything else down (if you have enough power - look up baffle step compensation for an idea) or eq electronically to load the lower port output response up.

 

For the ultimate, do all the above and take John's suggestion of a more powerful woofer.  That would make a significant change with the eq and port(s).

 

Thanks, assuming it is not too ugly, where can I find details on this 'port mod'? Adding a sub-woofer is not an option, both amp wise and more importantly WAF-wise. Like a chimpanzee; been there, done that and learned my lesson. Poke the bear before you pizz-off a woman by pushing the envelope too far in 'their family room'.  These speakers already served a 3 month sentence to the garage. It gets as cold as minus 40 here some winter days here.

[Quiet_Hollow]

EQ is your best bet.

I'll second that. +6 dB from 30-60 Hz makes a HUGE difference.

 

Put the spurs to 'em. Cornwalls have got nothing on the Belle.

[Wolfbane]

 

EQ is your best bet.

I'll second that. +6 dB from 30-60 Hz makes a HUGE difference.

 

Put the spurs to 'em. Cornwalls have got nothing on the Belle.

 

 

I believe I can buy a decrease of ~ 1.5 in the squawker by swapping out the original mid-drivers. Any EQ changes would to be via software for DAC sourced music.

[Guest David H]

I would investigate the port mod, if a sub is not an option.

 

Porting to the upper cabinet would be ideal, however it would be tricky to seal the horn motor board and grill assembly.

 

 

 

The original Martin Logan Dynamo is an impressive sealed sub, and only 1cuft.  Not the new cheap ported versions.  ie Dynamo 500 etc.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Any EQ changes would to be via software for DAC sourced music.

So long as doing so doesn't push the source into clipping. With so much source material squashed tightly up against the loudness ceiling, any boosting in the digital domain has to be accompanied by a complementary offset in the same stage, otherwise it'll end up sounding like a blubbering mess.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Quiet_Hollow

[Carbon_66]

The biggest upgrade is to grow some balls. Put the speakers where you want. Buy a sub, and crank it up when she is not home. 

 

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that's the way it is. If you're going to run Belles, then run them. If the wife doesn't like the way they look, ask her why she is not in the kitchen making you a sammich. 

 

I wish you luck but I feel that the battle has already been lost. 

[Wolfbane]

The biggest upgrade is to grow some balls. Put the speakers where you want. Buy a sub, and crank it up when she is not home. 

 

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that's the way it is. If you're going to run Belles, then run them. If the wife doesn't like the way they look, ask her why she is not in the kitchen making you a sammich. 

 

I wish you luck but I feel that the battle has already been lost. 

 

I'm guessing that you are:

 

17 years old and living in your deaf mother's basement.

 

35 years old and never married or divorced, and still living in your deaf mother's basement.

 

I probably should mention that my wife tolerates 4 other non-Klipsch speaker pairs in the same house plus a large sub, plus a center channel some driven by amps putting out 300 WPC. 

 

She also puts up with old ugly tube amps and 3 massive speakers in another residence we own.

[garyrc]

If you cannot, or have, put them in the corners, EQ is your best bet

 

I agree.   Mine -- a center channel -- uses a third option.  It is flush-mounted in an outside wall, facing in, with the rear of the enclosure in a bump-out tiny room sticking out into the garden.  There is grille cloth over the opening, with the Belle's original grille cloth removed.  It was a gamble, with as much advance testing as possible.  The flush-mounting provides the typical bass increase of such mounting (Google "bass flush mounting of speakers").  There is a little peak at 60 Hz, and response is pretty good down to 40 Hz.  In fact Audyssey measures 40 Hz as its - 3 dB point.  It is getting Audyssey EQ, which helps.  A subwoofer comes in at 40 Hz, but sometimes we turn it off to better enjoy the precise sound of the Belle and the Khorns.  Another advantage is that the Belle tweeter is now at the same distance (on the arc) as those of the flanking Klipschorns on a 17 foot wall, and there are no obstructions -- no pieces of furniture, not even the Belle  -- between the Khorns, as Chris & Roy keep recommending.

 

By the way, my wife loves all of our gargantuan speakers.  As to the women in your neighborhood,   in our old neighborhood there was one pair of Klipschorns, and three houses with pairs of Cornwalls.  I've seen great looking rooms with Bozak Concert Grands, and Altec custom speakers the size of Khorns.  Some large speakers have an aesthetic all their own.  I wish I still had the picture of the art gallery with the JBL Hartsfield blending in with, and complementing, all the other art objects.

Edited October 7, 2015 by garyrc