Cool new USA based company / tube amps

[mike stehr]

I don't think the troll comment had anything to do with Matt. The way I read it, Kirk was patting Carl on the back for being a good moderator, and mentioned he was a moderator on another forum along with the comment something like: "Forum and Topics may change, but trolls remain the same". 

 

I think he meant the comment in general...which I can agree with. I don't think Matt was ever the target in that comment. Maybe Matt feels differently and feels Kirk centered him out, but that's not the way I read it.

Edited November 14, 2015 by mike stehr

[xxJPMxx]

I too believe Kirk was thanking Carl in response to the moderating he did in regard to the retail questions. From my understanding it's against forum rules for commercial vendors to advertise and sell stuff here. There is a garage sale section for selling gear to fellow forum members but it's not meant for commercial businesses either.

 

From what I get out of the exchange is that Kirk wasn't too happy with Matt's response about the binding posts, and I initially don't think Matt liked Kirk's question about the "Radio Shack" looking binding posts. 

 

I too think you should stay Matt. 

[Krispy Kirk]

OK, so you can't buy $26 binding posts at Radio Shack, and few manufacturers will put top-shelf WBTs on their amps because it will price them out of their desired market.  I think we settled that.  I also think I complemented Matt sufficiently on his fine products.  My fear is that he will wither in the face of real criticism (beyond my cosmetic nit-picking) when the time comes at a show or in the listening room of a critic who writes for an audiophile website or magazine.  Matt hasn't even been on the Klipsch forums for three weeks and he's already cracking up!

 

We're here for you buddy. 

[Fjd]

Good Morning All!

 

It's time to join the party!   Diversity is what makes the audio hobby interesting, and, Tolerance is what makes it fun. 

 

I understand the rules, so, I will not be advertising here. However, if anyone has any questions I will be happy to answer them. 

 

Cheers!

 

Matt.

 

 

 

 

Seriously?  This preamp will not be able to drive heavy loads or long interconnects. The 12AU7 is terribly non linear why would you want to input a 1-2Vrms signal into it and then attenuate all the gain away? All you do is add distortion :/

 

Sincerely disappointed.

 

 

This is the pre-amp I was asked to build, and, many who have built it, like it. Like I said before, I am going to "do my thing" with it and I suspect my changes will make it better.

 

So you will be doing "your thing" (which I am sure is a "trade secret") which will render it a different preamp.

 

Correction; you are not building that preamp then.

 

 

 

Your questions come off as accusatory.  I don't know what the problem is but try to lighten up a bit if you would. 

 

 

 

 

If I shell out $2800 for a Genesis 6, can I ask for upgraded speaker terminals (like, say, WBT's)?  I'm sure they have zero effect on the sound, but from a purely cosmetic standpoint there are much better choices than those $3 RatShack parts bin lookalikes that are on the back panels of Toolshed Audio's (otherwise beautifully finished) amps.

 

 

 

 

Kirk, please restrict vendor type sales questions to PM, thank you.  TSA, if you would reply in like, that would be good as well.

 

Thanks, Carl.

 

No problem Carl, the question was purely rhetorical.  I have no intention of replacing my Response Audio Bella EXtreme Platinum 3205 tube integrated with Tool Shed amplifier.  I was merely pointing out that the choice of output terminals appeared less than optimal given the asking price.  The answer I got was exactly what I expected: "You want the good stuff?  You can't AFFORD the good stuff!"

 

Much respect by the way for the job you and the other moderators do around here.  I was a moderator at a (now-defunct) drumming equipment manufacturer's forum for the better part of a decade and I've seen it all.  We should compare notes sometime.  The topics and the forums may change but the trolls are always the same wherever you go!

 

 

 

 

Thank you Kirk.

 

 

 

I too believe Kirk was thanking Carl in response to the moderating he did in regard to the retail questions. From my understanding it's against forum rules for commercial vendors to advertise and sell stuff here. There is a garage sale section for selling gear to fellow forum members but it's not meant for commercial businesses either.

 

From what I get out of the exchange is that Kirk wasn't too happy with Matt's response about the binding posts, and I initially don't think Matt liked Kirk's question about the "Radio Shack" looking binding posts. 

 

I too think you should stay Matt. 

 

 

 

From another perspective, a reasonable person reading the thread may also interpret the following.

 

Matt indicated that he would refrain from advertising but would answer questions, then Matt is persuaded to stick around since the forum is thin on technical expertise and sloth was already run off through an unfortunate series of events in other threads.  

 

JPM comes on really strong probing deep into the designs of the products and CECA850 tells him to lighten up. 

 

Matt is encouraged to give back and joins the DIY conversations and starts a complementary preamp thread to Maynard's DIY amp thread for the DIY inclined that may want to build both a preamp and an amp.

 

Instead of just asking about policies for upgrading certain parts, Krispy Kirk comes in with what could be construed by some as an accusatory, bordering on condescending, tone regarding what he appears to view as poor parts selection (that he identifies as a $3 RatShack part lookalike without having the appropriate information) on a $2,800 amp and asks about a part (WBT speaker terminals) that costs $612 each / $2,448 for the four needed in the amp (note this is after JPM was already told to lighten up). 

 

Krispy Kirk then responds back to CECA850 that he had no intention of even buying, then seems to attempt to justify his post by indicating that he was "just pointing out what appeared to be a less than optimal part;" and proceeds to post another condescending post by stating "The answer I got was exactly what I expected: "You want the good stuff?  You can't AFFORD the good stuff!" totally ignoring Matt's response (post # 132) about using a $26 real platted copper part (instead of a steel core) and ignoring that Matt would substitute the $612 part (the WBT that Krispy initially himself referenced and asked about; and price verified in the link at Matt's post) for the difference in cost. 

 

Now from that "other perspective," it looks like the part missed was the trolling-like behaviors that exists in Krispy's posts even after the tone of the thread had already been set and one poster already warned by a moderator. 

 

Note that it would seem that JPM has been asking intelligent questions and receiving intelligent responses ever since in this thread.  Maybe we can follow that example and all do the same rather than try to justify our "tone" of a question (after the fact) as only an "innocent" question and looking out for others?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Fjd

[ToolShedAmps]

Ah, now that we are at the point at which a member whom hasn't been part of this "hoopla" has been gracious enough to point out what has actually transpired on this thread (thank you Fjd), I think we can move beyond this. "Water under the bridge" so they say.

 

Let me be clear, healthy discussion is good (even agreeing to disagree), however, condescending attitudes and/or remarks, abrasive comments, and other attacks that undermine or debase me or my product I simply will not tolerate. I am here (on this forum) to help others who enjoy Klipsch speakers as much (perhaps more) than I do. I believe I have a wealth of knowledge and experience that will help the less informed members of this forum. Additionally, I am beyond the need to "prove myself, or my amplifiers" to anyone. I have just offered the forum (and ANY DIY'er on the planet) one of MY pre-amplifer designs "FREE". And, to my knowledge, the ONLY current-production design ever offered by anyone who is trying to earn a living doing this. That said, I PROMISE to help when I can, and do so in a manner that isn't aggressive, accusatory or condescending. I welcome the opportunity to educate and converse in an environment that is welcoming and beneficial to all.

 

I hope we can all pledge the same thing.

 

Matt.

[CECAA850]

however, condescending attitudes and/or remarks, abrasive comments, and other attacks that undermine or debase me or my product I simply will not tolerate.

 

I believe we're past that especially considering the demeanor in the pre-amp thread.

[CECAA850]

 

Thank you Kirk.

I'd have thought better of a moderator. The guy calls me a "Troll" and you thank him.

 

I think I may be done here.

 

 

 

I thanked him for that compliment he paid me, nothing more.  To me the trolls comment was not directed at you (after rereading it, I can certainly see how you could interpret it that way).  I realize you're new here and really don't know me but I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt until you do.  I'm human and miss things from time to time but I do have a low tolerance for trolling and condescension.

[ToolShedAmps]

 

 

Thank you Kirk.

I'd have thought better of a moderator. The guy calls me a "Troll" and you thank him.

 

I think I may be done here.

 

 

 

I thanked him for that compliment he paid me, nothing more.  To me the trolls comment was not directed at you (after rereading it, I can certainly see how you could interpret it that way).  I realize you're new here and really don't know me but I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt until you do.  I'm human and miss things from time to time but I do have a low tolerance for trolling and condescension.

 

Thank you for responding Carl, I apologize for not affording you the benefit of the doubt.

 

Matt.

[CECAA850]

Thanks Matt.

[FloridaBoy]

Yes Joe, his amps are built to order.

I do know this much, JPX. ToolShed amps are pentode, not triode.

Single ended pentodes can sound mighty fine and tube rolling will not break the bank. The one you ordered can use 6V6 and 6L6 variants. *I* like the 6L6 family. You may just be floored at how good it will sound. BTW, the new production Tung Sol 6V6 is a superb tube. Ditto for the new Tung Sol big bottle 6L6G...it's really a GC. I've used them in a couple of similar amps and prefer them to many old stock tubes. Looking forward to your impression of the amp.

Edited November 15, 2015 by FloridaBoy

[FloridaBoy]

 

 

Isnt firebottle a tube based guitar effects pedal?

 

 

Yep, I found that when I googled it also.  I guess Dennis Had doesn't have a web site.

 

 

 

 

Dennis Had calls his amplifiers "Inspire" and has recently added the Fire Bottle reference.  Dennis seems to primarily sell on eBay (radioman731) when he completes an amplifier, similar to Bob Carver (audioshopper) selling his hand-built amplifiers.   I believe he also takes special orders for those that have contacted him by word-of-mouth.  There is also a headphone amplifier on Moon Audio running 6SN7, 6BL7 or 6BX7 output tubes. 

 

 

http://www.moon-audio.com/dragon-inspire-iha-1-tube-headphone-amp.html

 

 

Here are a couple of pictures to show the Fire Bottle references above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

I have a single ended pentode Inspire built on the above chassis with the similar 20 watt transformers. I also got one of Dennis' LP27a preamps. Wonderful combo. Any of these amp with Heritage speakers are excellent.

[FloridaBoy]

Joe

Dennis quoted me somewhere around $2300 for his 45amp/preamp combo. I believe the preamp for this was based around the vintage 76 tube, he is big on bringing back older tube types into his new circuits. I passed as regardless that my KHorns can run on as few as the 2 watts the 45 provides it is my feeling, and my ears, that they sound better with bigger power, much fuller throughout the spectrum.

Please don't hold me or Dennis to this price as I believe I got a "discount" for being a past customer and we were just discussing the possible project.

 The best bass I ever had was with a Korneff 45 using EML solid plate tubes. You would never have guessed it was flea power. ;-) The 45 in the right rig is amazing. Dennis is using the 27 tube in the LP 27a preamp.

A pic of mine is attached. I did not get the 45 amp but got a SEP amp built on the same chassis.

Edited November 15, 2015 by FloridaBoy

[Matthews]

Single ended pentodes can sound mighty fine and tube rolling will not break the bank. The one you ordered can use 6V6 and 6L6 variants. *I* like the 6L6 family. You may just be floored at how good it will sound. BTW, the new production Tung Sol 6V6 is a superb tube. Ditto for the new Tung Sol big bottle 6L6G...it's really a GC. I've used them in a couple of similar amps and prefer them to many old stock tubes. Looking forward to your impression of the amp.

 

Hello "FB", I am on pins and needles and ready to give my impressions of the G6 custom.  Matt (ToolShed) is building my amp with RCA black plate 6W6 output tubes.  For me, this will be my first experience with tubes so some of the terminology is somewhat of a foreign language.  ...but I am learning

 

I will be sharing a new "non-tech" thread soon with photos of the build progress.  Matt has been very good about keeping me involved with this build.  He fills me in, with photos and explanation of his progress (in laymans terms for me LOL).  Making me feel like I really am a part of this whole thing.  Pretty incredible...

[Krispy Kirk]

At the risk of sounding like even more of a troll...

 

Can we please stop talking about $612 binding posts?  That was a total strawman Matt concocted to make my suggestion of a higher quality part for his amplifier part seem ludicrous and easier to mock.

 

I am looking at page 77 of my 2015 Parts Express catalog and I count three different models of WBT binding posts and the most expensive one is a mere $57.  You guys might think I'm nuts but the connection between the amplifier and the speakers is mechanically one of the most important areas of an amplifier - any amplifier.  Granted, I've never built an amp from scratch but I've built plenty of speakers and restored a few old amps and I always install the best terminals I can afford.  Plastic nuts on binding posts strip, crack, and fail to hold on tightly over time.  That's all I was pointing out.

 

Now don't you feel silly Fjd?

 

Next up: I grill Matt about his choice of tube sockets! 

[Matthews]

At the risk of sounding like even more of a troll...

 

THAT'S IT!!!  I AM DONE...

[ToolShedAmps]

http://www.partsconnexion.com/product21098.html

 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wbt_68851.html

 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/product9741.html

[Fjd]

At the risk of sounding like even more of a troll...

 

Can we please stop talking about $612 binding posts?  That was a total strawman Matt concocted to make my suggestion of a higher quality part for his amplifier part seem ludicrous and easier to mock.

 

I am looking at page 77 of my 2015 Parts Express catalog and I count three different models of WBT binding posts and the most expensive one is a mere $57.  You guys might think I'm nuts but the connection between the amplifier and the speakers is mechanically one of the most important areas of an amplifier - any amplifier.  Granted, I've never built an amp from scratch but I've built plenty of speakers and restored a few old amps and I always install the best terminals I can afford.  Plastic nuts on binding posts strip, crack, and fail to hold on tightly over time.  That's all I was pointing out.

 

Now don't you feel silly Fjd?

 

Next up: I grill Matt about his choice of tube sockets! 

 

 

 

Interesting.  In reading your post I believe that you may have significantly missed the point of my post as the price of the binding posts; whether the binding posts cost $3, $57, or $600, was NOT the issue that I responded to in conjunction with the posts [# 143 through # 147] that appear to directly, or indirectly, analyze your prior posts and I do not see a reason to feel silly for adding my analysis to posts # 143 through # 147. 

 

However, given that you have stated that you were a moderator for the better part of 10 years, I suspect you may already understand the nuances of what is going on here and the nuance of where certain language can be interpreted as "troll-like."  If you don’t, I suspect that it may be prudent to read the “New Hardware” thread over in the technical/modifications forum at some point.

 

On a side note, I’m not one to state that a person cannot present their views on any topic, regardless of whether the information presented is driven by anecdotal experience or empirical data.  In addition, I do not believe that disagreement is a form of disrespect and welcome diversity and difference of opinion as the process can result in a foundation of great new information; however, I tend to disagree with discussion that can be construed as using condescending language when in disagreement.

 

Given the above and considering the posts in question, I believe that Carl may have said it best in this post that I quoted below; and noting that Carl's post must be one that you have read since you had added a “like.”

 

 

 

 

All of these things could have been left out or expressed differently to get your point across.  There's been many discussions as of late of wanting to encourage new members with technical knowledge to participate in this forum.  In order for the tube section to thrive we need to make new members feel welcome, not critique them right off the bat.  Maynard worked hard to get this sub section into the forum and (even though I don't understand much of the technical jargon) I like it and would love to see it thrive as the synergy between tube amps and Klipsch speakers is something we all agree on.  Again, technical DISCUSSION is encouraged.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and welcome back to the forum after your 10 year hiatus.

[tube fanatic]

 

I will be sharing a new "non-tech" thread soon with photos of the build progress.  Matt has been very good about keeping me involved with this build.  He fills me in, with photos and explanation of his progress (in laymans terms for me LOL).  Making me feel like I really am a part of this whole thing.  Pretty incredible...

 

I, and many others I'm sure, am looking forward to seeing the posts you make as the build progresses.  It's always enjoyable to witness the "birth" of a new piece of audio equipment!

 

William stated the case very well and, for the record, I use $2 Deltron binding posts on all of my amps and they "sound" as good as anything out there.  Don't forget that all we are looking for is a solid electromechanical connection to the speaker cable.  We only need to occasionally verify that the nut is tight if using bare wire or lugs.  With banana plugs, removing and reinserting them occasionally is more than sufficient as well.  Back in the day, when I was much more seriously involved in this stuff, my colleagues and I did lots of blind listening testing.  One experiment was to make up 3 identical length speaker cables using the same wire.  We had one set internally soldered directly to the speaker's binding posts (you can't get a better connection than that), another was attached to the binding posts using bare wire, and the third attached to the binding posts with banana plugs.  All 3 sets were connected to a switchbox which allowed near instantaneous switching between them (we didn't worry about the amp being unloaded with music playing for a split second).  To  make a long story short, not one person (including myself) could hear any difference or identify which connection they were listening to.

Maynard

[ToolShedAmps]

Thank you again Fjd, William and Maynard. 

 

I, like Maynard, have spent countless hours subjecting my family and friends to "blind" listening tests for a very long time. As Maynard pointed out, you cannot "hear" a difference in the "aesthetic" quality of a binding post. From a purely "engineering" perspective, I will not use a conductor made from a "sub-optimal" material, such as steel in place of copper (irrespective of the fact that the electrons flow on the "outside" of said conductor). Secondarily, "form" will NEVER follow "function" in any of my designs. 

 

On the other hand, you CAN hear the difference between an $18 Edcor Output Transformer and the very expensive OEM TAMURA Output Transformers in the Genesis6. Likewise, differences can be heard in coupling capacitors, by-pass capacitors, loading resistors, etc. I believe these "differences" to be the point at which science meets art.

 

The goal of any designer is to "leverage" budget for the best possible outcome irrespective of what the actual budget may be. In the pre-amplifier build thread, I will address this "leveraging" to a greater degree to help DIY'ers better understand what I happen to think makes a difference regarding component selection and how it impacts the "sound" of the finished piece.

 

Cheers!

 

Matt.

[xxJPMxx]

I really hope there isn't any snake oil talk around here. Oh how I loathe.

 

In regard to binding posts and output transformers. I cannot believe people argue that they can hear a difference in the material of the binding post. The exterior of the conductor (binding post) is copper which is the important thing. IF anything the steel would give the copper some strength. Copper plated steel, what a marriage. Also we are not talking about a 12' run of wire, it's length is so small the slight difference in conductivity is irrelevant. Your "audio" is induced directly through steel laminations from primary winding to secondary winding of your output transformer. Not to mention the fact that the majority of your components (resistors, capacitors, regulators have steel leads.