CECAA850 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 We're straying from the original topic to a gun debate. Stay on topic to keep the thread alive, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 We're straying from the original topic to a gun debate. Stay on topic to keep the thread alive, thanks. Yeah I agree, my point is terrorism can be done with anything like a car or pressure cooker, it doesn't have to be a gun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercedesBerater Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 True. But pressure cookers were not designed to cause death, and death only. I stand by, terrorism is the use of force, or threat of force to further ones political or religious agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah I agree, my point is terrorism can be done with anything like a car or pressure cooker, it doesn't have to be a gun!! Which is a typical argument in a gun debate. Let's get back on topic, thanks again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 True. But pressure cookers were not designed to cause death, and death only. Which is the other side of the gun debate. Last call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) And I would like stricter gun laws... Let's keep guns away from people with a violent history, and with mental illness. You can't do it though. The used market and straw man purchases make this task impossible. The only way to even put a dent in it is to have universal registration, which no politician is going to touch. They did an interview recently with convicts in prison in Chicago who were there on firearm charges. Only two of them got their gun through legal channels. That means 98% of them would not be phased by any action such as this. But I guess I was posting this during the last call warnings. I'll shut up about it. Edited December 3, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2015 Men and women are prone to error.So a shrug of the shoulders and a "get over it" attitude is your response?http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/ "last year more than 80,000 no-knock raids were conducted on American homes, Whitehead said. And 80 percent of SWAT raids are for mere warrant service." Is this really necessary? LOTS of things go wrong during these raids. Why is this not just the norm, but getting more common? Why mix apples and oranges? I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded. Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?Yes, a lot of people do, There is a new documentary going around the Country about the militarization of police. That documentary was spawned by a book written on subject, and a lot of problems in Utah was having with warrants. As I stated above, this is a training/human issue. I think carpenters are capable of using nail guns without too many bad incidents. Clearly, something else besides dangerous guns is in play here. I agree, it is a police traning issue, along with proper procedures like never having SWAT officers on scene for more than 3 to 4 hours at a time. It is also a leadership and communication issue. Some police chief's are goid at that, they meet with all segments of community, etc. Other's not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercedesBerater Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Think about this too.... Terrorism seems to be ignored when the skin color of the person is not brown. Which is why I like my definition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Back to the OP, sad thing is, we are so limp-wristed as a nation nowadays that a guy in the area actually saw six suspicious looking middle eastern guys coming and going in the shooters apartment and was afraid to say anything for fear of being labeled a racist. We have got to get over this obsession with being politically correct. This guy could have prevented all of this. http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/12/02/authorities-search-redlands-home-tied-to-suspect-syed-farook/ "A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people. “We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”" Edited December 3, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2015 I don't fault them one iota for gearing up like they do. It certainly provides the impetus for critics when one of them goes rogue, but all in all, I don't even have the balls to be a cop. It's a perilous job. They should be well-armed and well-shielded. I want law enforcement to prevail over serious criminals.Yes of course. The problem though is getting in a mindset where they treat everyone like a serious criminal, as if every neighborhood is a war zone. We are seeing this more and more. No-knocks raids where kids are getting shot in the face within seconds of barging in, flash-bangs being thrown into cribs, etc. The more you gear them up as if they're playing Call of Duty, the more this kind of mess gets out of control. Well, Travis, I see your point. Men and women are prone to error. Maybe we should just arm them with batons. Jeff, that wasn't me, unless you were referring to an earlier post than was quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2015 FBI is taking over investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2015 Back to the OP, sad thing is, we are so limp-wristed as a nation nowadays that a guy in the area actually saw six suspicious looking middle eastern guys coming and going in the shooters apartment and was afraid to say anything for fear of being labeled a racist. We have got to get over this obsession with being politically correct. This guy could have prevented all of this. http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/12/02/authorities-search-redlands-home-tied-to-suspect-syed-farook/ "A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people. “We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”" How would calling the police prevented all of this? I think that is a giant leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It really seems like the "intelligence" community is doing it's job. I mean doesn't the NSA invade our privacy to prevent this sort of tragedy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Jeff, that wasn't me, unless you were referring to an earlier post than was quoted. Yeah, I was referring to the other one where you said my comment would likely incite political arguments. I was wrong; you were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Why mix apples and oranges? I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded. Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded? My concern, which you seemed to disagree with, is that the more we outfit them with military grade and style of equipment, especially swat teams, the more aggressive they get, the more we see botched no-knock raids, the more they see themselves as a soldier in a war zone rather than a public servant that maintains the peace. I don't think this is a good thing. This has nothing to do with whether or not a patrol officer is wearing a kevlar vest under his uniform. It does kind of concern me that patrol officers are riding around with rifles in their front seat though, especially considering a friend of mine was killed by one when it should have been a suicide prevention call. This is the kind of crap that scares me. Exactly. This has to do with personality and training. Don't worry what they look like. Don't worry about how well-armed they are. Instead, worry about the mentality of the person and his or her propensities. “Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.” - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 It really seems like the "intelligence" community is doing it's job. I mean doesn't the NSA invade our privacy to prevent this sort of tragedy? Might be the best comment of the day. Excellent observation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 FBI is taking over investigation. Let's hope they solve it faster than Patty Hearst, or Whitey Bolger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 “Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.” - Mark Twain Are you suggesting that all poor people in raggedy clothes are bums on welfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2015 What do police have to have to go up for a "knock and talk", obtain a search warrant, to question someone, to bring them in for questioning. Would they have found anything illegal if the owner consented to the search? I saw two men standing outside Nieman Marcus last night speaking Farsi, one was on a cell phone, maybe I should have called it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's pretty easy to predict the future. More of these incidents. That's nothing more than pure statistics. More defensive posture by compounding, or other active security means. Less public events, and more security at schools. Obviously way more gun sales, and way more high capacity sales. More siloing More private schools Loss of public space, loss of commons, as it will be given over to active shooters Take a drive through the middle class neighborhoods of Latin America. That's what the future looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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