reccomend a SET for my CF3's

[rbtwsp]

Here is more about myself and my audio history.

I first had a yamaha 100 wpc integrated, a yamaha cdp,and the CF3's. It souded ok but wondered about something better.

A friend got me interested in tubes and I bought a George Wright 6650 based amp (about 70wpc), Wright's pre-amp, Spendor SP1/2e's. I was in a different home at this time and had a small listening room, this was a good combination (although the Spendors did not go real deep in bass, but the mids and highs were very good.

I moved to my present home with the listening area I described above(12x20) and found the Spendors a bit too small.

My daughter had been using my Yamaha equip and the CF3"s and wanted me to take it back, so I did.

I decided to try and sell the Spendors and the Wright amp. Initially for a time I tried the Wright pre-amp with the main amp on the yamaha and I kind like the combo of tube pre and solid state main, but I think there may have been a impedance match issue. I decided to sell the wright pre-amp because I checked into matching with other amps and thought  I may have issues.

The Cf3's seemed ok with 70wpc tube from what I recall but I do remember the bass seemed better with the solid state

I think I would like have tubes somewhere, which tubes are noted for good bass?

Edited March 3, 2016 by rbtwsp

[mikebse2a3]

hello evreyone,

 As I said before the room is 12'x20' and my listening position is about 16' away, the speakers are about 6-7' apart. I listen to classical and I only use one source my cd player. I listen to a fair amount of large orchestral, but not extremely loud. Yes, I do like bass but I don't necessarily need to rattle windows. I would like to have headroom for when orchestral changes from quiet to louder passages soI probably won't go SET but wonder if SEP would be enough, I think it would work when I listen to chamber but maybe not large orchestral.

If I could I would like to use just a  tube amp with a gain control, my cd player has output of 2.3 volts and I think that may be enough. My other thought is a tube integrated .

 

Thanks

 

Have you seen this Cary Integrated Amp with remote for sale by a forum member? It's not SET or SEP but it is a hand wired high quality amplifier.

 

80 watts/channel in UltraLiner mode

40 watts/channel in Triode Class A

 

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161971-fs-cary-sli-80-integrated-tube-amplifier-with-nos-tubes/

Edited March 3, 2016 by mikebse2a3

[NOSValves]

http://www.divertech.com/aslmgsi15dt.html

 

I used to have this Antique Sound lab amp driving my Epic CF3's. it has a switch that changes it between a 5 watts set amp and 15 watts in pentode for added flexibility.  It was a fun little amp and had a nice remote control as well.  It powered the Epics just fine.

 

 That looks like a good option to me. I think the CF3's while rated at 100db present a pretty wild impedance curve back to the amplifier so they might be pretty hard on a couple watt flea powered amp. 

[Wolfbane]

Jim gave you very good advice.  The real "magic" of SETs will be much more evident with a closer listening position, and lower listening level, than what is required at 16 feet.  Are you sitting on a couch or chair when listening, and is there a way to sit closer to the speakers?  Some guys use a simple switching arrangement which allows more than one amp to be selected depending on how you want to listen.  I'm sure Jim can explain how he does that if you are curious.

Maynard

 

That's my setup. I use a simple A/B speaker switch to select either a 2 WPC SET or (currently) my 15 WPC Fisher.

[rbtwsp]

Thanks I'll check into the Carey, I was also considering the Rogue Audio Sphinx , any thoughts on the Sphinx?

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_sphinx.htm

[Jim]

Here is more about myself and my audio history.

I first had a yamaha 100 wpc integrated, a yamaha cdp,and the CF3's. It souded ok but wondered about something better.

A friend got me interested in tubes and I bought a George Wright 6650 based amp (about 70wpc), Wright's pre-amp, Spendor SP1/2e's. I was in a different home at this time and had a small listening room, this was a good combination (although the Spendors did not go real deep in bass, but the mids and highs were very good.

I moved to my present home with the listening area I described above(12x20) and found the Spendors a bit too small.

My daughter had been using my Yamaha equip and the CF3"s and wanted me to take it back, so I did.

I decided to try and sell the Spendors and the Wright amp. Initially for a time I tried the Wright pre-amp with the main amp on the yamaha and I kind like the combo of tube pre and solid state main, but I think there may have been a impedance match issue. I decided to sell the wright pre-amp because I checked into matching with other amps and thought  I may have issues.

The Cf3's seemed ok with 70wpc tube from what I recall but I do remember the bass seemed better with the solid state

I think I would like have tubes somewhere, which tubes are noted for good bass?

 

 

Tube amps are going to give a different bass response for the most part either way. You pretty much just answered your question on a SET amp as you said it still felt like you needed more of something with the 70wpc. That is what I meant when I said they were power hungry.

 

If I can suggest one more thing for the system to try with the tubes. Aphex204 Aural Exciter with big bottom. It's like the old "bass boost" button on the old receivers and is used in a lot of recording studios. I have one in my system on the SET. It isn't an EQ like a typical one is, it just brings things out more defined.

[Zim.]

x

[avguytx]

I've got 2 different 10 wpc EL84 tube amps that sound very nice on my CF-3'S, but, they both pale in comparison to 460 wpc on them. They definitely aren't as efficient as the Heritage line and do shine with power...no matter what levels you listen at. The dynamics are outstanding with the extra power....the low end is aolid, midrange very fluid, and highs aren't overbearing. They have phenomenal staging. But, that's just my $.02.

Wait...I was supposed to recommend an SET. Oops.

Edited March 4, 2016 by avguytx

[rbtwsp]

I've got 2 different 10 wpc EL84 tube amps that sound very nice on my CF-3'S, but, they both pale in comparison to 460 wpc on them. They definitely aren't as efficient as the Heritage line and do shine with power...no matter what levels you listen at. The dynamics are outstanding with the extra power....the low end is aolid, midrange very fluid, and highs aren't overbearing. They have phenomenal staging. But, that's just my $.02.

Wait...I was supposed to recommend an SET. Oops.

avguytx, how is the bass with the EL84 amps?, I'm starting to lean toward a hybrid

[mkane]

I use 2a3 set's with Cornwalls. Rooms 16X26. More than loud enough.

 

 

 

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Edited March 4, 2016 by mkane

[moray james]

Cornwall's are not CF3 they are at least four db away and a smaller combined piston area (2x10" Vs 1x15" = no contest).

[avguytx]

Cornwall's are not CF3 they are at least four db away and a smaller combined piston area (2x10" Vs 1x15" = no contest).

Two 10" drivers (157 sq in area) versus a single 15 " (170 sq in area) is only a 8% +/- difference of cone area.  That's not a major difference.  Plus there are lots of other factors that come into the equation, too. 

[avguytx]

avguytx, how is the bass with the EL84 amps?, I'm starting to lean toward a hybrid

 

 

 

 

It's quite good but no comparison to the amp I use 90% of the time (the larger Carver M-1.0t MkII) and it doesn't matter the volume level I listen at.  If I do actually get to play things a little louder, when everyone is gone, the more power comes in handy.  I'm pretty sure if I ran either of the two tube amps on Belle's, La Scala's, Klipschorns, etc., that power would be sufficient and the larger amp overkill...and maybe noisy.

 

I did run one of them on some Khorns years ago and it did just fine.  All I needed.

[rbtwsp]

I realize the Heritage line is very different from the Epic CF line, I want tubes in the equation, I think in the pre stage. Alot of the hybrids I see have 100wpc, i think I would be fine with less. The draw back with the more power is less usable area on the volume control.

I listen to classical and a good amount of large orchestral and would like the reserve power when changes from soft to loud occur quickly

 Bob

[moray james]

 

Cornwall's are not CF3 they are at least four db away and a smaller combined piston area (2x10" Vs 1x15" = no contest).

Two 10" drivers (157 sq in area) versus a single 15 " (170 sq in area) is only a 8% +/- difference of cone area.  That's not a major difference.  Plus there are lots of other factors that come into the equation, too. 

 

yeah any time you care to actually compare two tens against a single fifteen you will find that they won't stack up. They will beat a twelve but not a fifteen.

   Two tens equal approximately 1 1/2 twelve inch woofers, two twelve inch woofers equals approximately 1 1/2 fifteen inch woofers. That is a good rough average and a safe rule of thumb.

 

.

Edited March 4, 2016 by moray james

[avguytx]

Um...ok. I've compared it plenty of times in my previous 30+ year a/v history. It all depends on the drivers, enclosure, application, amplification, cabinet, etc. Again, lots of variables. It's always been humorous to hear people talk of it that way.

Edited March 5, 2016 by avguytx

[rbtwsp]

 

http://www.divertech.com/aslmgsi15dt.html

 

I used to have this Antique Sound lab amp driving my Epic CF3's. it has a switch that changes it between a 5 watts set amp and 15 watts in pentode for added flexibility.  It was a fun little amp and had a nice remote control as well.  It powered the Epics just fine.

 

 That looks like a good option to me. I think the CF3's while rated at 100db present a pretty wild impedance curve back to the amplifier so they might be pretty hard on a couple watt flea powered amp. 

 

So, tell me if I am thinking about this correctly, if a high efficiency speaker has a 'wild impedance curve" it could be harder to drive, meaning needs more power?

[NOSValves]

http://www.divertech.com/aslmgsi15dt.html

I used to have this Antique Sound lab amp driving my Epic CF3's. it has a switch that changes it between a 5 watts set amp and 15 watts in pentode for added flexibility. It was a fun little amp and had a nice remote control as well. It powered the Epics just fine.

That looks like a good option to me. I think the CF3's while rated at 100db present a pretty wild impedance curve back to the amplifier so they might be pretty hard on a couple watt flea powered amp.

So, tell me if I am thinking about this correctly, if a high efficiency speaker has a 'wild impedance curve" it could be harder to drive, meaning needs more power?

With tube amps especially. A tube amp can only produce its rated power wIth the exact load for the transformer tap being used. Also wild deviations in impedance will increase distortion..

[ToolShedAmps]

hello evreyone,

 As I said before the room is 12'x20' and my listening position is about 16' away, the speakers are about 6-7' apart. I listen to classical and I only use one source my cd player. I listen to a fair amount of large orchestral, but not extremely loud. Yes, I do like bass but I don't necessarily need to rattle windows. I would like to have headroom for when orchestral changes from quiet to louder passages soI probably won't go SET but wonder if SEP would be enough, I think it would work when I listen to chamber but maybe not large orchestral.

If I could I would like to use just a  tube amp with a gain control, my cd player has output of 2.3 volts and I think that may be enough. My other thought is a tube integrated .

 

Thanks

I've got a great idea, why don't we start with this?

 

http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/noise-induced-hearing-loss/

 

Then we can move on to a discussion of "realistic" playback levels and power required to achieve a specific performance goal?

 

TS Matt.

[rbtwsp]

OK, after looking at the article in the link without having a device to measure the current decibel level I think I like to listen at, I will guess at somewhere in the range of 70-75 decibels