Grizzog Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 That sub was vetoed for my family room. How did you accomplish the approvals for such a system?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Grizzog said: How did you accomplish the approvals for such a system?? It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, Grizzog said: That sub was vetoed for my family room. How did you accomplish the approvals for such a system?? Stick it in a pertied up garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 You can test that 1802 all you want, but the rig we listened to in Hope was phenomenal, period. Can't imagine what it sounds like with 2 channels and I'm sure that Kevin's set up is impressive with the Jubs. So how much does 10 sheets of plywood and an 18" driver cost these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Grizzog said: That sub was vetoed for my family room. How did you accomplish the approvals for such a system?? That's his cave, it would have never gone in his living room I would imagine, he has khorns there, and a wife. Edited August 1, 2016 by dtel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Pete H said: So how much does 10 sheets of plywood and an 18" driver cost these days? I have no idea, but there is also a really strange looking port inside that would not be fun to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 21 hours ago, dtel said: ...strange looking port inside.... Laminar flow nozzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 On 7/28/2016 at 8:03 PM, Chief bonehead said: why doc, you dont trust my dirty measurements? and you cant just throw in any ole driver.....sorry. If I trusted the dirty curves, then I think I would just stick with the Othorn since it is a smaller cabinet, cheaper, and has better numbers on paper....Are you saying we shouldn't trust the dirty curves? Or is that your point? The reason I want to hear a shootout is because I'm open minded enough to believe there are other numbers that might have a greater audible influence. You have but to point us to the data.... Here's a quick summary comparison: The published spec on the 1802-HLS for 1m ground plane is 130dB "calculated" with 1100W dumped into it. 102dB sensitivity with 2.83V input at 1m. Enclosure volume is 63.7 cubic feet. Cost = ??? (http://assets.klipsch.com/product-manuals/KPT-1802-HLS-Manual-WEB.pdf) The Othorn measured spec is 132dB at 2m ground plane measured with CEA2010 limits and 120V dumped into it. 100dB sensitivity with 1W input at 1m. Enclosure volume is 18 cubic feet. Cost = $1.5k (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81) One should add somewhere between 3 and 6dB to correlate a 2m measurement to a 1m measurement. The Othorn is also taking up 1/3 the total system volume. Upgrade to the Pro-5100 driver in the Othorn and you get another 2dB of output all around: (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=95&mset=102) MaxSPL isn't the only story, but there's never been an exhaustive distortion spec of the 1802-HLS made public. The Othorn specs are there though....with normal SPL distortion numbers much lower than the Jubilee LF or Khorn LF. Back of hand IMD distortion calculations show that being lower too. How does the 1802-HLS distortion stack up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 3, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 3, 2016 56 minutes ago, DrWho said: If I trusted the dirty curves, then I think I would just stick with the Othorn since it is a smaller cabinet, cheaper, and has better numbers on paper....Are you saying we shouldn't trust the dirty curves? Or is that your point? The reason I want to hear a shootout is because I'm open minded enough to believe there are other numbers that might have a greater audible influence. You have but to point us to the data.... Here's a quick summary comparison: The published spec on the 1802-HLS for 1m ground plane is 130dB "calculated" with 1100W dumped into it. 102dB sensitivity with 2.83V input at 1m. Enclosure volume is 63.7 cubic feet. Cost = ??? (http://assets.klipsch.com/product-manuals/KPT-1802-HLS-Manual-WEB.pdf) The Othorn measured spec is 132dB at 2m ground plane measured with CEA2010 limits and 120V dumped into it. 100dB sensitivity with 1W input at 1m. Enclosure volume is 18 cubic feet. Cost = $1.5k (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81) One should add somewhere between 3 and 6dB to correlate a 2m measurement to a 1m measurement. The Othorn is also taking up 1/3 the total system volume. Upgrade to the Pro-5100 driver in the Othorn and you get another 2dB of output all around: (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=95&mset=102) MaxSPL isn't the only story, but there's never been an exhaustive distortion spec of the 1802-HLS made public. The Othorn specs are there though....with normal SPL distortion numbers much lower than the Jubilee LF or Khorn LF. Back of hand IMD distortion calculations show that being lower too. How does the 1802-HLS distortion stack up? wow Doc!! i would just stick with the Otthorn and wouldnt even mess with the 1802.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted August 3, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said: wow Doc!! i would just stick with the Otthorn and wouldnt even mess with the 1802.... I would take the shootout Chief Bonehead! There's a reason your called "Chief"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 3, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 3, 2016 On 7/13/2016 at 1:29 PM, DrWho said: Eminence is a bargain basement driver supplier - you go with them because you want to increase your margins. It's the same reason Klipsch uses them. It's understandable because all that woodworking (for Danley and Klipsch) costs a lot - so you gotta take cost out elsewhere. It's totally a brilliant engineering move because you don't need as potent of a driver when you have a horn. It makes sense when you're trying to run a business and hit cost targets, etc... However, you don't run to Eminence because it will yield the best possible sound quality. It's simply not "great" stuff. Good? Adequate? Balanced compromise? Sure, absolutely. But if you're going to imply a bargain is somehow the best thing since sliced bread because your hero uses it, then you're just deluding yourself. I totally get it that several of us are cheapskates (myself included), but the money itself isn't a defining quality. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but when thinking about sound quality, the price is never a factor for me. The only thing price affects is what I personally own. It doesn't change how what I own sounds. The problem with the audiophile community is we're too elitist about what we own and want to prove to the world that we have the echelon music listening experience....and we've achieved it while spending just a few hundred dollars. To use a car analogy, I love my Elise, but I'm not naive enough to think it actually goes toe to toe with a Formula 1 car. Who cares if my fun per dollar is maximized? The Formula 1 car is still better and I don't have to piss on the Formula 1 car to enjoy my Elise. thats funny doc. i know you are impressed with how woofers look but the reality is that we are concerned with sound of a system. just a tid bit for you doc (because i like you so much), we are constantly looking at woofer suppliers. we provide samples and specs and we get sample woofers to test. if they test like we want them to, then we ask for the quote and by golly molly, then turn out to be quite a bit more expensive then what we use. in real world of producing loudspeakers, it about the system and what we are trying to achieve;not about woofers and how shiny they look. so i guess we will continue to use "not great stuff"......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 3, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 3, 2016 1 minute ago, dtel's wife said: I would take the shootout Chief Bonehead! There's a reason your called "Chief"! naw....we dont have nothing to prove. our Customers like them even if we use "not great woofers". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Hmmm...I don't ever recall looking at shininess and I certainly have never commented on it. I've always looked at things like Bl, CMS, Le curves, T/S params, and the resultant SPL, phase, and distortion characteristics, etc... all things that the rest of the audio engineering community is discussing and writing technical peer reviewed papers on. When I receive a quote that comes in higher than the competition, I'll usually ask our suppliers to explain the difference. It is often the case that they have included more capability within the part. Sometimes that capability is helpful for my application, sometimes it's not. I don't pretend to know everything about my own inventions, so I lean heavily on the experience of others to inform my implementation. I certainly don't go around making straw-man arguments in an attempt to belittle the competition. I learn and improve my designs by embracing the success of others. Perhaps you should be asking for more from your driver suppliers? Why settle for status quo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 3, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 3, 2016 5 hours ago, dtel's wife said: I would take the shootout Chief Bonehead! There's a reason your called "Chief"! 10 minutes ago, DrWho said: Hmmm...I don't ever recall looking at shininess and I certainly have never commented on it. I've always looked at things like Bl, CMS, Le curves, T/S params, and the resultant SPL, phase, and distortion characteristics, etc... all things that the rest of the audio engineering community is discussing and writing technical peer reviewed papers on. When I receive a quote that comes in higher than the competition, I'll usually ask our suppliers to explain the difference. It is often the case that they have included more capability within the part. Sometimes that capability is helpful for my application, sometimes it's not. I don't pretend to know everything about my own inventions, so I lean heavily on the experience of others to inform my implementation. I certainly don't go around making straw-man arguments in an attempt to belittle the competition. I learn and improve my designs by embracing the success of others. Perhaps you should be asking for more from your driver suppliers? Why settle for status quo? you know doc, i am beginning to think that you really dont know me all....but thats ok...i still like you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 On 7/16/2016 at 8:04 AM, mustang guy said: What that doesn't show is the 153db at 100Hz that sub can reproduce. Who on earth wants to listen to 100 hz at 153 db? 35-40 hz at 153 and you've got you a respectable car audio system. 100 hz is a strange frequency for them to brag about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 On 7/26/2016 at 5:20 PM, CECAA850 said: Get to Hope for the gathering next year. It's made a showing the last two years. I want to hear it in a small'ish room. It's loud outside but ought to be insane in a typical room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said: Who on earth wants to listen to 100 hz at 153 db? 35-40 hz at 153 and you've got you a respectable car audio system. 100 hz is a strange frequency for them to brag about. Right you are! That sub can do 34Hz at 147db also. Either way, that is a lot of db, and meant for the peeps in the back row! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 If anyone is unhappy with their 1802...you can send it over to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 44 minutes ago, Grizzog said: If anyone is unhappy with their 1802...you can send it over to me. A set of wheels on the back and a trailer hitch and you could just pull the thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The only thing I thought was odd or at least interesting about the 1802 was how much vibration some of the front/side panels had. I assumed such a thing would just be rock solid. I don't have any other horn subs to compare it to so I can't comment further but it was definitely noticeable based on what I'm used to. Obviously it apparently doesn't matter in terms of output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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