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Dave A

Super MWM

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Most of the time yes, very lucky.

That usually ends when I try dumb things I know I shouldn't or push my luck and it bites me on the azz, but overall your right, feels like it anyway.

 

just a little bump back to the top, I'm not going to try it but it is interesting and positively my favorite folded horn :blush:

 

None of this would have happened if JC wouldn't have wanted to try the old MWM cabinet in the Anechoic chamber with the 402 horn that weekend in 2007, Thank You and for Roy being willing to do it, it surely changed our living room. :emotion-29:

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I was wondering if you couldn't build an extension for the front [bell] of the horn. I realize that it would not be very structurally sound [yeah, we'll go with the pun] and present some vibration..

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18 hours ago, WillyBob said:

I was wondering if you couldn't build an extension for the front [bell] of the horn. I realize that it would not be very structurally sound [yeah, we'll go with the pun] and present some vibration..

Yes, you could build a 2 foot extension for the front of an MWM. It would have a different taper rate, but it would extend the bass down a bit. I can model it if you are serious about it.

 

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OK, so I modeled a 2 foot extension FORWARD on a standard MWM single bin at the same 17x68 dimension. IOW, a rectangular straight mouth, with no further widening. It would extend the bass like the Super MWM, but it would create about a 3 db. dip centered at 127 Hz. (from 90-200), but it would work. It would also flatten the overall response.

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thanks ClaudeJ1

 

interesting results

is the 3bd dip caused by the horn not having a taper to the height ?

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On 6/24/2018 at 4:38 PM, WillyBob said:

thanks ClaudeJ1

 

interesting results

is the 3bd dip caused by the horn not having a taper to the height ?

Partially, yes. However, since it's a true 8 ft. long horn at that point, rather than around 5 ft.with more folds for the Khorn and Jubilee (whose dip is at 220 Hz.) the dip is less severe, the horn flatter, and a lower cutoff. All other things being equal, the longer horn wins the low cutoff game, sometimes at the sacrifice of the high end if you use a bigger driver. The twin 12" drivers in the Jubilee make that horn a small footprint horn with better compromises than a Khorn, IMHO. The MWM's only compromise is more floor space.

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On 6/20/2018 at 9:20 PM, dtel said:

That was funny, I thought they were joking when they said "that's what we want", you were right there you heard them, they were not joking, that's the daughter that got the spud and some Forte's recently. 

Late response, but I was sitting next to your ladies and remember their look of amazement when the MWM/K402 was first turned on. I'm sure mine matched, but I do remember her bragging about your building skills and both of them immediately making up their minds about wanting those. I'm glad it came to pass for your high level enjoyment for all these years. I had Khorns and a LaScala middle with the same setup and "resistor box" as PWK, right out of college and for 30 years.........that is, until I got the MWM bug as you did. Mark 1101 and I sold our Khorns within about 2 weeks of each other and the rest is history. If I were to follow JWC's advice about going to 50 Hz. with a subwoofer, then I would just be back to my Indy setup of 2013/2014, which was my Quarter Pie bass horns.

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6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I had Khorns and a LaScala middle with the same setup and "resistor box" as PWK, right out of college and for 30 years.

Big difference between us, I never even found Klipsch or speakers like this until later, you already had your for 10-12 years.

I went through different speakers and ended up building set from a book that were within 1/2" of a Cornwall same idea 3 way, mid and high horns before I even found Klipsch.

 

Then hearing fully horn speakers was another jump for me.  We were looking for our last pair of speakers around the time of the first pilgrimage in Indy, I got to listen to Khorns in a few different homes that year and i walked away even more confused. They sounded almost completely different in every house/room, and I was thinking this was the natural progression, Khorns as the top of the line and now they sound different in every room, some not so great. 

I didn't know what direction to go and then that day happened in Hope with the MWM, I couldn't afford the jubes and to me the biggest part of what I liked was the 402 horn, and we had the space tor the MWM bass bin and it just worked out.  I'm done as far as speakers, electronics who knows what may pop up but i am loving the sound. Perfect, of course not, nothing will ever be perfect, but good enough for old abused ears, yes.   And when I go past just light background music and let them breathe a little they still make me smile every time even after all these years. :)

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3 hours ago, dtel said:

Big difference between us, I never even found Klipsch or speakers like this until later, you already had your for 10-12 years.

I went through different speakers and ended up building set from a book that were within 1/2" of a Cornwall same idea 3 way, mid and high horns before I even found Klipsch.

 

Then hearing fully horn speakers was another jump for me.  We were looking for our last pair of speakers around the time of the first pilgrimage in Indy, I got to listen to Khorns in a few different homes that year and i walked away even more confused. They sounded almost completely different in every house/room, and I was thinking this was the natural progression, Khorns as the top of the line and now they sound different in every room, some not so great. 

I didn't know what direction to go and then that day happened in Hope with the MWM, I couldn't afford the jubes and to me the biggest part of what I liked was the 402 horn, and we had the space tor the MWM bass bin and it just worked out.  I'm done as far as speakers, electronics who knows what may pop up but i am loving the sound. Perfect, of course not, nothing will ever be perfect, but good enough for old abused ears, yes.   And when I go past just light background music and let them breathe a little they still make me smile every time even after all these years. :)

 I got a pair of Cornscalas just for the heck of it last weekend. Wanted to hear them and as you say hear them in my listening environment. Nothing sounds quite the same after getting into these big MWM's + whatever you have on top. Heard the Cornscalas and thank you they are now for sale. It is a shock to hook up the MCM 1900 with the same wattage you just had pushing the Cornscalas and you go from loud to too loud when switching to the MCM's and the sound is so much better. I am looking forward to the day I can hear these 402 horns and stick a pair on some S MWM's. I do not believe I will be looking for anything after that. I sit out in the shop and an hour goes by so quickly listening to music the way it is supposed to be.

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I know how you feel, and it's why I said "'m done as far as speakers " , because I am done.

 

And yes there very efficient and needs little power, but to me what is much more important is they sound huge, our cornwall will go louder than we need but can't sound this big. You can sit and listen and the sound is not coming from one spot roughly where the speaker is, it's like a wall of sound between the MWM and the 402 horn, I would imagine it's similar with the MCM1900, but I have never heard a pair so I can only guess with the same bass bins and large horns ?

 

I did something similar to what you just did, after having them for a few years I wanted to hear if the 402 horn was really that good so I brought in the tops I use for the yard. It's a DIY top like a split LaScala, same exact horns and AA crossovers, I connected it to one bass bin on each side to compare. This would be like a Khorn or LaScala top half compared to the 402 horn. It was not even close, I listened that evening and switched back the next day, I had made the right choice, by far. I don't mean any disrespect to either of the other models I could live with either, but it not the same by any stretch.

 

So your pretty screwed now as far as going back to anything smaller, sorry.     not  :biggrin:

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On 6/26/2018 at 6:42 PM, dtel said:

So your pretty screwed now as far as going back to anything smaller, sorry.     not  :biggrin:

NO regrets on this end. I think if the S MWM turns out like I think it will you might have to move up. I will build a set later this summer and you or anyone else who wishes to is welcome to stop in and listen if you are in the area.

 Each step up has been a revelation. I have had Chorus II and I, Cornwall I and II, Forte I and II,  La Scala and LSI, Heresy I and II, KP250,262,260,301, 301II, assorted 115's and 480's, 302, 201, 450 and 456. The 450 and 456's are really something but the MCM 1900 is just amazing. I heard the Jubilees that Cory in Paducah has and they were VERY nice but I wish I could have heard these big boys in his home theater.  If I had to give the MWM stuff up due to space some day the only thing that would satisfy me would have to be something at least as good as the KP456/450. The rest are OK but just not what I want anymore.

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

I think if the S MWM turns out like I think it will you might have to move up.

Ha, no way I would change, I hate to move them (no handles) I think I moved them only once since I built them in 09.

 

Anyway a big horn sub is easy to blend in, and does way more than any change to a MWM bin could do. 

 

 

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On 6/28/2018 at 11:22 PM, dtel said:

Ha, no way I would change, I hate to move them (no handles) I think I moved them only once since I built them in 09.

 

Anyway a big horn sub is easy to blend in, and does way more than any change to a MWM bin could do. 

 

 

Of course it's easy to blend one in. But it's another driver or two on top of more lumber and construction labor. For music, squeezing an extra 15 hz. down below by adding an extra 2 feet to the MWM is, by far the easiest way to "blend in," as you put it.

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Well I got lucky, it was free and already built all I did was edge band it, sand, stain and spray with satin poly, to make it prettier. :lol:

 

It never added the the 2 feet to the MWM but it did add 5' 8" to the center. It replaced the entertainment stand I had built and I had to mount the Tv on the wall so electronics could sit on top. 

It's not like I was saving space.

 

Before and after pic's                             for size the tv is 65"                  the right MWM was moved over after the spud left which was against the wall

house 2.jpg

house sub.JPG

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10 minutes ago, dtel said:

It never added the the 2 feet to the MWM but it did add 5' 8" to the center. It replaced the entertainment stand I had built and I had to mount the Tv on the wall so electronics could sit on top. 

It's not like I was saving space.

I really like your new "stand." I'm sure it sounds way better than the older one. LOL.

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It is a much better sounding stand and better than the spud great for Ht or 2 ch. That box on the right in the second pic is the Forte ll used for a center, I put it on a short stand with wheels and I can easily move it to the side of the right speaker if needed. Nothing's perfect but this is the best I have ever had.

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Talking with Bill Hendrix last night and he answered the question of why only 44" deep on these. It was decided this was the best for transportation in semi's and also for door clearances during  setup and take down.

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6 hours ago, Dave A said:

Talking with Bill Hendrix last night and he answered the question of why only 44" deep on these. It was decided this was the best for transportation in semi's and also for door clearances during  setup and take down.

Yep, but they went to the split versions for 2 more reasons. Not all clubs had 36" door clearances. Even some double doors had a metal separator. The double bin was difficult for 2 people to handle, even with dollies, not so with the MWMs-ingles.

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On 6/18/2018 at 6:35 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Since I did the Hornresp model, it's definitely Bigger and prevents a 3 db hump at horn cut off and gives a few Hz. extra extension.

I also have a new mod which extends bass further with outside dimensions like Dave's first one above.

Now these are frikkin' huge and not for the squeamish. However, if you want bass that's much smoother, then you need a horn with the fewest folds, like this one.

SuperMWM2.jpg

Please post hornresp input data.

The height is 15.375? There are missing measurements on the plan, please assist with areas numbered 1 to 4

 

Super MWM plans claude  missing.jpg

Edited by Mrscy
left out something

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