karlson3 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 If Eminence's 2k5CX coax crossover which retails for ~$69.95 but with a street price or $49.95 had its metallized <Mylar 10uF and 3uF caps replaced with 10uF and 3uF Theta foil caps, that change for an individual would cost ~$100 to upgrade just those two caps and only one channel. Economics could play a role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 That's a subjective view... your entire premise of price versus performance is subjective is it not? If someone wants to use machined billet as opposed to stamped steel, thats their choice even if specifications and engineering requirements are met in each case, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I don’t think you understand what he’s trying to say Michael. He’s not disputing that there are better available parts to manufacturers - just that they have to deal with the reality of marketing constraints, and of course - the reality of diminishing returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'm not qualified as in electronic training nor various engineering training to make judgement other a guess that in some instances, certain parts (capacitors) might not matter very much. (some speakers may mask effects and the effort akin to putting lipstick on a pig) Not everyone is affluent enough to indulge their audio hobby passion to improve with top quality capacitors vs those capacitors thought to be textbook functional. (There's AB - ABX testing) a small loss at top of the audible spectrum might make a system's balance more skewed to the midrange. I guess there are factors in real components such as capacitors which may have audible consequence - but not easily "measured" then there are the highly suspect (imo) "enhancing orgone" (more like "moneygone") types of room treatments, wire elevation stands, and whatnots ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Good post. I’m in the same boat. I try, but I’m no EE. I’m fully reliant on others who are fully qualified to make sound judgments. The only time I depart is when I realize they don’t hear so good, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Deang said: the reality of diminishing returns. At some point chasing incremental improvements become 90% of the overall cost. To go from say .0005" accuracy to .00005" can be done but your costs will climb into outer space numbers. Quite often .001" will do just fine for the purpose of the device in mind. I see many audio things sold that the buyers can't possibly benefit from except a placebo effect. I can measure differences in capacitors but past a certain point I have no doubt my hearing is not acute enough to benefit from tighter tolerances. I think capacitors do matter and so does the speaker and up to a certain point I do hear distinct differences but that last 10% is of no interest to me. I figure 90% of the way to audio Heaven puts me way ahead of most of these name dropper audiophile's and that's good enough. Remember I am talking real measurable differences here and not some marketing guy pure BS which also is quite pricey and even more not worth it. An aside on throwing money at things. One of my favorite quotes came from a guy I sold a set of KPT456's too. He was an Audiogon refugee and depressed because those clowns had convinced him if he did not have 80g to spend he would never have a satisfactory system. So I told him to come on over and I would fix that problem for him. 456's + music files on my PC + one crown xli800 and it was priceless to watch his jaw drop. Needless to say he went home with the 456's and considered them better than that 80g Audiogon stuff he had heard. His comment that I am referring to went like this. He had always been told by anointed Audiogon types that Klipsch was too life like and not capable of playing notes to their full potential "pure tonal qualities" and so he had never considered klipsch until in desperation one day he saw one of my Craigslist ads and decided to call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Monsanto could be thanked in the past for PCBs (and "Agent Orange") - these days, "Roundup". Cheerios and like I guess are organic, but according to reports have many times the allowable level of glyphosate due to oats being sprayed with such as a drying agent. https://www.ewg.org/release/roundup-breakfast-part-2-new-tests-weed-killer-found-all-kids-cereals-sampled I would not be surprised if some of the Behringer amps would beat some of the "audiophile" stuff. In my town (now hyper drug infested) of Huntington, WV 40 years ago, the local hi-fi shop had snotty sales people - guess those were needed to convince the lowly consumer of what to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, karlson3 said: Monsanto could be thanked in the past for PCBs (and "Agent Orange") - these days, "Roundup". Cheerios and like I guess are organic, but according to reports have many times the allowable level of glyphosate due to oats being sprayed with such as a drying agent. https://www.ewg.org/release/roundup-breakfast-part-2-new-tests-weed-killer-found-all-kids-cereals-sampled I would not be surprised if some of the Behringer amps would beat some of the "audiophile" stuff. Don't try to stand in the way of unbridled greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Okay Dave, it’s not incremental improvements, it’s subjectivively monumental improvements, lol. Please go back and read my comments and the information in my link from Bob Stout. People who haven’t done a nice build with exceptional parts shouldn’t be commenting, okay? They have absolutely no point of reference or experience. I’ve been building since 2004. I’ve tried almost every different thing imaginable. I’m not insane, I mean, not Jeff Medwin insane. 🙂 The crossover sits between the amp and the drivers. Should we expect some amazing result by using entry level junk parts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Come and get them @Budman - all done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Deang said: I’m not insane, I mean, not Jeff Medwin insane. 🙂 Not yet, at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 YUM EEE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, Deang said: Okay Dave, it’s not incremental improvements, I might try one day. I have been talked into the xilica and time alignment so I am not hopeless;). Honestly though my interest in passive crossovers is dwindling fast since I am going active. When I redo old speakers no one wants the expensive crossover caps either unless it is for free basically so I kind of live in a different world than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 We serve different interests. No one on my end is interested in active processing. We’re old - we want straightforward and simple. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 ("Jeff insane" = a goal post which to aim !) btw - here's a lovely article on problems with metallized film capacitors including permeability of plastics to absorb moisture. (sounds like a steel can ain't such a bad idea) https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1607/1607.01540.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 46 minutes ago, Deang said: We serve different interests. No one on my end is interested in active processing. We’re old - we want straightforward and simple. 🙂 Yeah I know. I sit here at the age of 65 and look at just another thing to learn added to all the design and machining software stuff. Made the decision that I am not renewing any more professional software as I am not interested in learning how to do the same things over again as they change the user interface to new improved bold looking and better. But since I am making parts for speakers I figure I need to know what they do and with a 106" throat on the S-MWM I have to time align. At least this stuff will be simple compared to the other software I use. Once you enter the software world you can never leave it seems until you die or your brain gives out. So I have the UMike and REW and all that wonderful stuff that will make me mad until I figure it out. I watched my Mother get Alzheimers and I worry about my wife doing the same. Dad was active and taught computer classes at the senior citizens center until his late 70's. Mom watched TV. While I don't like the struggle with software at times I believe an active mind that is made to work on complex things will resist these types of ailments better. I am going to limit it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 We have a lot in common. I’m 60. My Mom has dementia. My Mother-in-Law is dying. So, what’s important? Not much. A nice passive is a simple, great sounding turn key approach. Just plug and play. I always tell people - you get one shot, why not do it right? Why throw peanuts at such an important component? If you can solder, you can do it well for $500. It’s worth it. I’m getting ready to re-do my Radian coaxials. Beryllium replacement drivers and new crossovers. It’s worth it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 My MCM 1900, which was just loaded on a trailer and sent to Charlotte,NC, had a three way crossover and sounded very nice. Plug and play and as easy as it gets. (I am suffering from audio withdrawal already.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Deang said: Come and get them @Budman - all done! Bout damn time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Awe c’mon - I just started on them Friday. They sure look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.