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Bosco-d-gama

Rumble and roar?

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4 hours ago, y2keglide said:

Well different strokes for different folks as they say, a saying I've heard comparing a Harley and a Honda Gold Wing (could also be a BMW)

They say riding a Gold Wing is like going to a symphony where as riding a Harley is like going to a rock concert.

BMW R-bikes are sport tourers...Gold wing is heavy tourer...like the difference between mini-van which handles OK, and a sport touring sedan which can eat up the twisties two-up with a load....very different frame geometry between gold wing and what I have.... whereas Harley has straight-line frame geometry....like a rail dragster. 

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^^^^^

=== with all due respect ( a BMW owner here too x2) it’s all about rider skill rather than the bike or its perceived intent.

A skilled rider with miles under his belt can hustle a Goldwing through the curvies far better than one can imagine. 

Skill, little fear, great rubber and a properly tuned suspension works wonders on any bike and pays big dividends on a GW.

A couple friends will and do lay waste to much sportier machines on GW’s. 

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knowing the road makes a big difference.

  

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44 minutes ago, richieb said:

^^^

=== with all due respect ( a BMW owner here too x2) it’s all about rider skill rather than the bike or its perceived intent.

A skilled rider with miles under his belt can hustle a Goldwing through the curvies far better than one can imagine. 

Skill, little fear, great rubber and a properly tuned suspension works wonders on any bike and pays big dividends on a GW.

A couple friends will and do lay waste to much sportier machines on GW’s. 

If you know your bike's capabilities, and limits, you can do much more than most people can believe...I've surprised lots of squid kids over the years😉  who see a bike like mine as an old fart putting machine!  My bike has many unseen "mods"...I run aviation hydraulic fluid in forks instead of fork oil...no stiction at all ever.....plus have progressive springs inside....balance my load...evenly distributing things by weight, when touring......Have progressive shocks with heavy duty springs on rear .....many small nuances that improve handling….and always re-torque head bearings and swing-arm bearings before going on a long haul (All of them are tapered rollers).... I  normally run 80-85 on highways unless conditions tell me not to!

 

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Of course the purpose of a ‘vehicle’ is transportation, the sound made by that vehicle is entirely collateral. From the get-go the noise they made caused problems for others. Horses did not like the putt-putt cars.  If they could have been made quieter easily from the start I believe they’d have been made that way. Now, for some, the noise is apparently needed to gain attention. Look at me, here I come, mine is louder - whatever. Does the volume or character of a loud vehicle make anyone better, smarter, better looking, or better at anything? On a personal level - not one bit. 

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3 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

BMW R-bikes are sport tourers...Gold wing is heavy tourer...like the difference between mini-van which handles OK, and a sport touring sedan which can eat up the twisties two-up with a load....very different frame geometry between gold wing and what I have.... whereas Harley has straight-line frame geometry....like a rail dragster. 

It wasn't about handling characteristics, I have ridden both and as for Harleys there are many different models over the years with many different frame styles.

I had an FXRS years ago (Erick Buell deigned frame) and it would run through the corners with those Beemers no problem,it was an early 1984 model and the lightest weight modern  big twin Harley ever built . My Electra is a heavy weight touring bike and it handles better that people give it credit for.

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42 minutes ago, richieb said:

^^^^^

=== with all due respect ( a BMW owner here too x2) it’s all about rider skill rather than the bike or its perceived intent.

A skilled rider with miles under his belt can hustle a Goldwing through the curvies far better than one can imagine. 

Skill, little fear, great rubber and a properly tuned suspension works wonders on any bike and pays big dividends on a GW.

A couple friends will and do lay waste to much sportier machines on GW’s. 

Tires are a big deal, I've been running Metzler 888's on the Hog and my friends get left in the dust and can't figure out why, they have the stock HD Dungflops still on that the stealer sells.

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3 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Of course the purpose of a ‘vehicle’ is transportation, the sound made by that vehicle is entirely collateral. From the get-go the noise they made caused problems for others. Horses did not like the putt-putt cars.  If they could have been made quieter easily from the start I believe they’d have been made that way. Now, for some, the noise is apparently needed to gain attention. Look at me, here I come, mine is louder - whatever. Does the volume or character of a loud vehicle make anyone better, smarter, better looking, or better at anything? On a personal level - not one bit. 

In total disagreement, most of the time when I ride or drive there's no one there to "Look at me" and I could care less.

The bike and car in the garage I don't use for transpo I use them for fun, I have a different daily driver for transpo.

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25 minutes ago, y2keglide said:

It wasn't about handling characteristics, I have ridden both and as for Harleys there are many different models over the years with many different frame styles.

I had an FXRS years ago (Erick Buell deigned frame) and it would run through the corners with those Beemers no problem,it was an early 1984 model and the lightest weight modern  big twin Harley ever built . My Electra is a heavy weight touring bike and it handles better that people give it credit for.

I've owned  few harleys too...over the years...none of them newer models...which have much better handling characteristics than older ones do...the "look" that most Harley-owners try to achieve is what causes Harley to  keep the old straight-line geometry going....the Buell is a completely different thing...a 1200 sportster engine in a modified honda racing frame design...buell just adopted it for using Harley engines...making minor, but necessary fit and strengthening changes due to the engine's different torque curves/tranny ratios, etc.

 

I've owned some really great bikes and a number of more-or-less suicidal machines, too...some bikes were poorly designed, , or even purposely left hanging in certain departments to save costs or rushed into production way too soon! 

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27 minutes ago, y2keglide said:

Tires are a big deal, I've been running Metzler 888's on the Hog and my friends get left in the dust and can't figure out why, they have the stock HD Dungflops still on that the stealer sells.

I've been running Metzler for decades...they don't last a long time, but they are really excellent tires...if you can afford to replace them Like I have had to do way too quickly

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59 minutes ago, y2keglide said:

In total disagreement, most of the time when I ride or drive there's no one there to "Look at me" and I could care less.

The bike and car in the garage I don't use for transpo I use them for fun, I have a different daily driver for transpo.

Yet you say that the ‘sound’ of your ride puts you in a “zen” state.  These days you do not require the noise to ride fast. You say the noise is not to gain attention. So is it a pacifier - a sound that adds value to the experience and would detract from the experience if absent? From my perspective the only thing motorcycle noise effectively does is render the vehicle menacing which any number of riders and riding clubs do employ to ‘flex’ the power of their presence.

 

If I hear you correctly the rowdy noise is a learned association with pleasure. If so have you ever tried riding without the noise? If not then you’re argument becomes a presumption. In fact you may find more pleasure riding w/o the unnecessary rumble. To be clear I do not want anyone to feel threatened with my concern. I am NOT dissing motorcycles or their riders, and I am not advocating against them. I am saying that they are unnecessarily made to be far too loud when for all practical purposes the excess noise adds nothing to the ride nor to the character of the rider. The take away is until you try riding silently you cannot make a valid argument for or against noise containment. On the other hand I have not done much riding at all so my perspectives are pretty limited as well. But I do read here that most bikers use ear plugs and other sound dampening devices - so noise is truly an issue for most folks.

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12 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Yet you say that the ‘sound’ of your ride puts you in a “zen” state.

 

With particular emphasis upon the context in which this conversation is taking place, I would add that most of us have audio systems for that.

 

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These days you do not require the noise to ride fast.

 

That wasn't always true, but it is very true today. Modern exhaust systems are extremely efficient while being quiet. Aftermarket exhaust systems may add 1-2% power at the top of the RPM range, where people seldom visit on the street, while losing an equivalent amount in the more useful lower RPM regions. The aftermarket systems may weigh a few pounds less, but most of us would be better served by taking a few pounds off ourselves.

 

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If I hear you correctly the rowdy noise is a learned association with pleasure. If so have you ever tried riding without the noise? If not then you’re argument becomes a presumption.

 

I really like that synposis. "Your argument is a presumption."

 

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But I do read here that most bikers use ear plugs and other sound dampening devices - so noise is truly an issue for most folks.

 

To be clear, the earplugs are generally for wind noise, which is surprisingly loud even with a helmet.

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10 minutes ago, Edgar said:

 

With particular emphasis upon the context in which this conversation is taking place, I would add that most of us have audio systems for that.

 

 

That wasn't always true, but it is very true today. Modern exhaust systems are extremely efficient while being quiet. Aftermarket exhaust systems may add 1-2% power at the top of the RPM range, where people seldom visit on the street, while losing an equivalent amount in the more useful lower RPM regions. The aftermarket systems may weigh a few pounds less, but most of us would be better served by taking a few pounds off ourselves.

 

 

I really like that synposis. "Your argument is a presumption."

 

 

To be clear, the earplugs are generally for wind noise, which is surprisingly loud even with a helmet.

I agree about the wind noise. I wear a full face helmet, and have been wearing earplugs for 20+ years with the helmet. I also do a little amateur road racing. The earplugs inside the helmet actually hurt my lap times on track. I felt like I lost some of my connection to the engine with the plugs.

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  Some people just enjoy the sound of an internal combustion engine.  I know I do.  My whole family is that way.  When I was younger I bought my older brother a cassette of different engine sounds.  The entire cassette was clips of different motor exhaust sounds idling, revving and doing drive bys.  We wore that tape out.  Think of a gas engine as analog and an electrical motor as digital.  They both do the same thing but in different ways.  Some people enjoy one, some people enjoy the other.  To look down on one form or the other is akin to being judgemental about what amp someone else uses.  Enjoy what you enjoy and let others do the same.

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Couple of points. 1st my experience is with noise I hear but do not actually observe. I do know the sounds I am hearing come from motorcycles but it could well be that I only hear the noisy cycles and the more muffled units glide by unnoticed by yours truly. 2nd it would be nice if my concerns were acknowledge as merit worthy. There are cities that pass sound ordinances and they do enforce them. Where I live we have an ordinance against the use of air brakes on trucks because of noise. So y’all can listen to the concerns of citizens or ignore them until they pass laws to regulate the problem. Being considerate of others is fundamentally worthy. 

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5 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

  Some people just enjoy the sound of an internal combustion engine.

 

The snarl of a Merlin at 3000 RPM and 61 inHg is sweet.

 

The sound of a V-twin with straight pipes at 5:00 AM, not so much.

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20 minutes ago, Edgar said:

The sound of a V-twin with straight pipes at 5:00 AM, not so much.

People should still observe the law, no question.  I doubt that straight pipes are legal anywhere and honestly, most of them sound like crap. 

 

There was a kid that worked with me that tried about 5 different exhausts on his Mustang until he found the perfect one (for him).  It was the worst sounding, most obnoxious sound I've ever heard coming out of a Mustang.  It was just wrong on so many levels.  We were all pretty much ecstatic when he quit.  It was that bad.

 

My wife drives a Porsche and every month we get their "Christopherous" magazine.  One of the best articles I've ever read was how they tune the exhaust.  There was so much that went into it.  They have an entire department that just deals with tuning the exhaust for performance with an emphasis on the final sound that it makes as it exits the vehicle.  Talk about a dream job, well for me anyways.  I believe this is it.

 

https://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/christophorusmagazine/archive/376/articleoverview/article02/

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48 minutes ago, Edgar said:

 

The snarl of a Merlin at 3000 RPM and 61 inHg is sweet.

 

The sound of a V-twin with straight pipes at 5:00 AM, not so much.

NOTHING in aviation sounds as good to my ears as A supercharged Rolls/Royce Merlin ...flying overhead!...in ANY aircraft that used it...and of those that used it, I think the Mosquito sounds the best!...with a PAIR of Merlins doing their thing!  Had the pleasure of THAT experience in the mid-70's.  Serious wow-factor for sure!  Not even sure there any more of those Mosquitoes still flyable anymore!

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1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Couple of points. 1st my experience is with noise I hear but do not actually observe. I do know the sounds I am hearing come from motorcycles but it could well be that I only hear the noisy cycles and the more muffled units glide by unnoticed by yours truly. 2nd it would be nice if my concerns were acknowledge as merit worthy. There are cities that pass sound ordinances and they do enforce them. Where I live we have an ordinance against the use of air brakes on trucks because of noise. So y’all can listen to the concerns of citizens or ignore them until they pass laws to regulate the problem. Being considerate of others is fundamentally worthy. 

Pretty sure you meant engine exhaust "jake" brakes...right?  I don't like those either...not supposed to be used in town limits anyway!  They were originally designed to save brake shoes of semi rig brakes when going down steep slopes!...by using engine compression and choking what came thru the exhaust itself...increasing the "slow-down" factor.

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14 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

.not supposed to be used in town limits anyway! 

We have that ordinance in the town where I work.  Logging trucks frequently pass the business where I work and some use Jake brakes.  I'd classify them as loud and ratty sounding.  Nothing good about that sound but I do suppose that they help save brake pad wear.

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