Zen Traveler Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 hours ago, henry4841 said: So many misconception of power needs of real efficient horn speakers True. Otoh, the RF-7 has a horn tweeter, but 2 10" LF drivers so the efficiency of the horn needs to be mated to those drivers which evidently needs more power to drive. It seems to give the speaker a more jagged Frequency Response Curve and doesn't make the RF-7 a legitimate 8 Ohm speaker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Fwiw, I think one should consider an amp/AVR that's rated to drive 4 Ohm Speakers (If you are going to listen @ high SPLs) and not necessarily the Watts per channel. That's my take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyIsDamGood Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) (thanks to everyone for the info) . . .I don't believe I've ever heard any speakers being played with a tube amplifier. I can't give my opinion on that audio-combination. (for now; I plan on purchasing a 8 to 4-ohm - stereo amplifier (Yamaha PX3 300-watts or Yamaha PX5 500-watts) Thank you Edited February 11, 2023 by GuyIsDamGood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK Thom Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Good luck and enjoy, Yamaha makes some really nice sounding kit. 500 though is overkill. Somehow we all managed to listen to things just fine in 70s with 30 and then 50 watt amps. Many grossly overestimate how many are actually required. There was a really good demonstration video floating around here a week or two that showed live measurement of how many watts were actually being used. Very informative and an eye opener for many. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK Thom Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Found it! This is really something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 5 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said: I measure +/- 500 watts on an instantaneous level. If the amp don't have that. 😳 Well... No way for you to know exactly what the meters are saying. They are eye candy at most. Get out a decent VOM to get numbers for an accurate amount of voltage you are getting to the terminals of your speakers. Measure across the speaker terminals the peak AC voltage on peaks then use ohms law to get an more accurate number of the watts you are truly using. Do this on the loudest you listen at. Nelson Pass has an oscilloscope set up to show a 1 watt window in his testing listening room on 95db full range speakers and people are always telling him to turn the volume down and the signal is no where near the limit range of the scope. Real measurements and not hype audiophiles are subjected to so much of. Members on our forum using Klipsch speakers should think quality watts over quantity and not listen to false claims from those trying to sell something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, GuyIsDamGood said: (thanks to everyone for the info) . . .I don't believe I've ever heard any speakers being played with a tube amplifier. I can't give my opinion on that audio-combination. (for now; I plan on purchasing a 8 to 4-ohm - stereo amplifier (Yamaha PX3 300-watts or Yamaha PX5 500-watts) Thank you Absolutely nothing wrong with buying so many watts you are never going to use as long as the amp sounds good at 1 watt. That is where you sound is going to live. I did much the same when young with my LaScala's. Used a 200watt per channel monster amp for over 20 years. I now know I was like the old man on the freeway driving a 200mph car 50mph. Five tube watts are perfect for me in my room, average size I would say. Like 10 or more SS watts, class A of course, when it comes to SS amps. This is not to say I do not have big watt amplifiers. Have one of the best 150watt class A/B PP SS amplifiers ever designed that sounds outstanding. Why so many watts when I know I am just using a few watts. Because I can. But to set the record straight I do have this SS amp biased where it is in class A where all my music lives with my speakers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, YK Thom said: Found it! This is really something. Just watched a HBO movie about how diamonds are hyped by telling big lies to make big money. We music lovers are taught early on that more watts equals better when the truth is it is nothing more than BS sugar coated. One is much better of buying a quality amp with moderate power. But decades ago when I bought some of the first Bose 901's I could tell a big difference going from a 75watt per channel to a 200watt per channel. But they only had 9 cheap but good little speakers trying to make bass and they could be power hungry trying to do this. I would never use inefficient speakers for my main listening ever again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 6:36 PM, henry4841 said: But decades ago when I bought some of the first Bose 901's I could tell a big difference going from a 75watt per channel to a 200watt per channel. But they only had 9 cheap but good little speakers trying to make bass and they could be power hungry trying to do this. The EQ needed to make them sound decent uses power boosting the bass frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 9 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said: The EQ needed to make them sound decent uses power boosting the bass frequencies. And a lot of it. The big 200 watt per channel amp woke those things up. Now instead of little speakers with big amps I prefer big speakers with less power needed amps. Just listened to my new SET 300B amp build last night with probably 6 watts, have not tested it yet. Filled the room with glorious sound. And loud with less than a watt usage. Unlike most I have many amplifiers to back up my claim of a few tube watts is all that is need with our speakers. The last retail amp I bought, Yamaha a decade or more ago, with 60 watts per channel did not make bass like this new SET 300B with expected 6 watts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, henry4841 said: Just listened to my new SET 300B amp build last night with probably 6 watts, have not tested it yet. Filled the room with glorious sound. And loud with less than a watt usage. I bought, Yamaha a decade or more ago, with 60 watts per channel did not make bass like this new SET 300B with expected 6 watts. Did I miss your amp build thread? Those were very entertaining glad to see your still pumping them out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, jjptkd said: Did I miss your amp build thread? Those were very entertaining glad to see your still pumping them out! I started the SET 300B thread a few weeks back but just now got the dang thing to work. More on what and why on that thread in a few days. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/214318-set-300b-project/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 7:03 PM, henry4841 said: No way for you to know exactly what the meters are saying. They are eye candy at most. Get out a decent VOM to get numbers for an accurate amount of voltage you are getting to the terminals of your speakers. Measure across the speaker terminals the peak AC voltage on peaks then use ohms law to get an more accurate number of the watts you are truly using. Do this on the loudest you listen at. Nelson Pass has an oscilloscope set up to show a 1 watt window in his testing listening room on 95db full range speakers and people are always telling him to turn the volume down and the signal is no where near the limit range of the scope. Real measurements and not hype audiophiles are subjected to so much of. Members on our forum using Klipsch speakers should think quality watts over quantity and not listen to false claims from those trying to sell something. I have a digital graphing meter that prints, or downloads to Windoze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 If you correctly measure AC signal voltage at speakers you will be shocked at the watt or watts you are truly using. I dare say the average listener listens at around 80db to 85db loud at most. At least sensible people. Our speakers at minimum are 95db or better at just one watt 1 meter. Just plain old common sense will apply if used. And the rating is a continuous 1 watt which we never listen at in real life. Give it some thought. Even peaks are just a few watts with horn speakers. PWK said many years ago that what is needed is a good 5 watt amplifier, with his speakers of course. Nothing has changed what a genius electronic engineer found decades ago. There are always going to be skeptics and it's their money to waste in unused watts if they want to. It is the hype propagated by those trying to sell amplifiers we have been hearing since taking an interest in this hobby. More is better, right. Invest your money is a good quality amplifier instead of a high wattage one with horn speakers. Horn speakers are very unforgiving and require quality watts not quantity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 A reputable maker like Pass Labs have outstanding amplifiers. With our speakers all is needed is one of their 30 watt per channel amplifiers. If you spend more money than what than what the XA30.8 or the XA25 in their line the money will be wasted IMHO unless you believe the performance at a few watts is somehow better with one of the more powerful amplifiers. In reality one of the Firstwatt offerings is perfect for our speakers and will save a lot of money. But for one of the best quality amplifiers Passlabs is where you want to look. Much can be said with other vendors such as Dan D'Agostino as well. Many other quality built amps out there as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyIsDamGood Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) (Thanks to everyone for the info on necessary amplifier watts to power Klipsch Speakers) I believe I've found the amplifier with enough watts for the RF-7iiis: Rotel RB-1582 or (preferred: RB-1590). Those amplifiers Have what I'm looking for. (Thanks for the video YK Thom) I learned a lot from the commentator's info on amplifier watts. My family likes to hear Loud audio; but we're probably damaging our ears. (I'll take my time choosing a more suitable amplifier) Edited February 14, 2023 by GuyIsDamGood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Here we go again....who listens at 55dB? Couple months ago someone claimed they listened at 45 dB, then oops my meter is out of cal. Really more like 75 to 80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 If if if....you are blessed enough to have a recording with 20 dB peaks over average you need an amplifier that has 100x power than what it is using at average. Luckily for our amps (but unlucky for our ears) recordings like that are the needle in the proverbial haystack. Live sound reinforcement is a totally different ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, babadono said: If if if....you are blessed enough to have a recording with 20 dB peaks over average you need an amplifier that has 100x power than what it is using at average. So I would need ~ 10 watts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 OK, if the average is a tenth of a watt. Just reminding folks power and sound levels are logarithmic values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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