moray james Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, Imsjry said: So can those more knowledgeable explain why i get "listener fatigue" with the Chorus at higher levels that i did not experience with the Forte's? Is it a difference in the horns between them? I used to get the same sensation with the KG 4.5 model and when i got the Forte's I was so happy it went away. are the diaphragms in the horns original stock or after market? that would be a good place to start. Is the gasket on the K600 mid horn fresh and properly adjusted? They should not be over tightened (to the point of deforming into a bulge), there should be a smooth seamless transition between the mouth of the driver and the throat of the horn. Is the mid horn a cast metal K600 or a plastic resin K601? Is the throat perfectly round with zero flanges? In other words is the throat of the mid horn round and perfectly smooth at the edge. These things will generate distortion. The Chorus ll has a better mid horn that should not have any of these issues. PS: I cannot be sure from looking at the photo of your room but it looks like you have a coffee table in front of your seating location and you may well be getting mid frequency bounce off of that, easy to remove to see if it is the cause of your problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Looks to me like you definitely need some room treatment there. Rugs, drapes, etc. Seems to be quite a number of reflective surfaces, the floor especially. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 hours ago, jimjimbo said: Looks to me like you definitely need some room treatment there. Rugs, drapes, etc. Seems to be quite a number of reflective surfaces, the floor especially. True Also I do not listen as loud anymore. For me digital hardware and poorly mastered software have been my roof causes of listener fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Do you have an spl meter to check how loud you are actually listening? I have found, personally, that when the playback system is clean, i.e., lower distortion, it's too easy to have the volume up too high. Then it wears on me... Nice looking room, btw. Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Audio Flynn said: For me digital hardware and poorly mastered software have been my roof causes of listener fatigue. sounds like you should listen to some better transports and digital cable or players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imsjry Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 Thanks all for the reply's. The "fatigue" I'm describing with the Chorus II's I don't feel is related to any cabling or component issue since i did not get this with the Forte's or my Polk LSiM's. To describe it more accurately, I would say it's like getting a dull headache after about 20 minutes of moderately loud volume (I realize "loud" is relative to each persons preference). This occurs on different types of music or sources. I also get the exact same "fatigue" with my Grado headphones after about an hour of listening which many reviewers attribute to the way the Grado's handle the high end. Maybe my old brain is just too sensitive to certain frequencies in the high end. I can try some different room techniques but I'm more curious if there is any technical reason in the speaker design between the Forte's and the Chorus that could cause this? It also sounds like the Crites upgrades might be worth the effort since these are all original drivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Too much high frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imsjry Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, mark1101 said: Too much high frequency. So are you saying the Chorus put's out more high frequency than the Forte or that it just handles it different? Edited June 26, 2019 by Imsjry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 How LOUD a speaker can play seems to be a badge of honor in the Klipsch world. I doubt I ever play my stereo over 80 dB, 90 dB would be a very, very rare occurrence . I never had Chorus speakers, but I prefer my Forte I, Forte II and my former Forte III over my Cornwall III all day long, any day of the week, and at any volume level. I blew out the woofers on my Forte II because of my amp dumping 24V to them due to a malfunction. I had Miller Sound completely rebuild the woofers and for reasons I do not understand, even the mids and highs were vastly improved over when I had the stock woofers. The frequency balance remained the same, but the resolution improved and perceived distortion decreased. He rebuilt EVERTHING from scratch basically only using the frames and magnets of the original woofers. New spiders, new cones, new surrounds, new voice coils etc, all from NOS parts stash and some fabrication techniques. He is a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 One thing I notice on the internet, people use "then" when they should use "than". It happens A LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imsjry Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, kink56 said: One thing I notice on the internet, people use "then" when they should use "than". It happens A LOT. Fixed it for you. Sorry for the inconvenience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Just a suggestion, try toeing them out a couple of degrees so they are aimed off axis from your ears. This definitely helped for me when I owned my Forte 1s. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Imsjry said: So are you saying the Chorus put's out more high frequency than the Forte or that it just handles it different? There is only 1 way to find out. You need either REW or TRUE TRA (or some other simple analyzer tool) and measure to understand the difference. In my systems I can always tell when I have too much top end and it'll show in the measurements. It is quick and easy to spot. Usually I had the tweeter too hot. In my case what i think bothers me is very high frequency sounds that I can no longer hear well but that are at a too high volume. Even though I may not hear them as loud they are there and too darn loud. That's fatiguing to me. I have a project that I am using Chorus II horns on top of DBB (double cornwall) bass cabinets. I am still working on the networks. But when I had it up and running the top end was WAY hotter and had more extension than my cornwalls. The Chorus II tweeters I have go out to past 20K. So I know you have some top end with Chorus IIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 6:26 PM, moray james said: the Chorus is a less efficient speaker i think you are confusing which fortes he has.... he said he has forte2 & chorus 2. the chorus2 is more efficient at 101db than the forte 2 at 99db. you also say the chorus has a better mid... chorus2 & forte2 have the same tractrix mid horn. i'm sure you know that, just clearing up any confusion in your statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 10:04 AM, Imsjry said: It also sounds like the Crites upgrades might be worth the effort Just remember these Ti diaphragms tend to sound "sharper." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Emile said: Just remember these Ti diaphragms tend to sound "sharper." Yes they do. If you are battling ear fatigue, I think it's best to rule out many other causes before you change out to the titanium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rah Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I have Chorus II's and Quartet's, and have heard Forte II's - the one thing I think the Chorus II's do better than the other two is at lower volumes give me a fuller sound, more detail? (which I guess is to expected), so that I don't have to turn it up so much for those times when it can't be cranked. So, if I'm listening at lower volume do prefer the Chorus II. I like the Quartet's but find I need to listen to them at a louder level for my musical enjoyment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imsjry Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Ok after more critical listening between the two speakers today, my hearing tells me the following; The Chorus ii sound more full with fatter bottom end. More concert-style sound to my ears. They seem to have more spacial separation between left and right channels. The Forte ii sound a bit thinner, yet somehow are more refined musically. I can pick out the individual instruments better although I need to turn the volume up a bit louder to do so. So im back to thinking neither are clearly better then the other. The differences are subtle and just that...they are different yet both amazing. Long story short, They are both amazing speakers and I am not selling either of these anytime soon. I may just change them up from time to time for a different experience. Like getting different good bottles of wine, life is much better with variations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Imsjry said: Ok after more critical listening between the two speakers today, my hearing tells me the following; The Chorus ii sound more full with fatter bottom end. More concert-style sound to my ears. They seem to have more spacial separation between left and right channels. The Forte ii sound a bit thinner, yet somehow are more refined musically. I can pick out the individual instruments better although I need to turn the volume up a bit louder to do so. So im back to thinking neither are clearly better then the other. The differences are subtle and just that...they are different yet both amazing. Long story short, They are both amazing speakers and I am not selling either of these anytime soon. I may just change them up from time to time for a different experience. Like getting different good bottles of wine, life is much better with variations. you might consider installing an acoustical filter on your Chorus ll woofer a layer of 1/8" F-11 Acoustical Felt covering the woofer, it will not impede the low frequencies but it will damp the upper range frequencies of the woofer at and beyond its crossover point to the mid horn. This will result with less interaction between the woofer and the mid horn at crossover and above, you do not want to hear anything from the woofer above the crossover point you want to focus to what the mid horn is reproducing. I use this decades old trick on my modified H3 and it works very well.The felt also helps to establish some additions load on the woofer which helps to enhance the impedance match between the woofer and the air in your room. The net result is improved stage and image quality of the speaker system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 11:53 PM, moray james said: sounds like you should listen to some better transports and digital cable or players. That was Fifteen plus years ago. Doing great now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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