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Ziggurat

Xilica up and running!

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After my early dramas with the Xilica I purchased, I now have it up and running - feeding two Crown power amps - Macro Tech 2400 driving the bass section of the Altec 19's and a Power Tech feeding the K402's.  Note this all still a 'dummy run' learning exercise until Jubes arrive......

 

It is not worth delving too far into all the improvements to the sound, but I will say that there is far more holographic detail and the bass has clarified to a remarkable, fast, lucid force.  I'm tuning the PEQ by ear and with some basic measuring gear.  Not ideal, but I am getting some decent results.  Not "fearing" the Xilica is a big help - anything can be changed back - its pretty darn straight forward for the best part.

 

I am interested in hearing what you guys are doing with gain settings.  I am currently running the amps set at 12 o'clock on their own gain dials, simply because it a place to start, then using the Xilica's gain controls to fine tune.  I have found that I need to have the Xilica gain settings at or above 0db or I lose a certain clarity that can't be brought back with PEQ.

 

How do you guys regulate / choose the gain possibilities when you introduce the Xilica?  is it best to have the amps dialed low and the Xilica dialed high? etc.  Your comments appreciated. 

 

Next question, using X-Console, is there a way to 'copy' the PEQ settings you have dialed in for one channel, and 'paste' them to the another channel?  Or do you just have to manually duplicate them? 

 

Many thanks

 

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28 minutes ago, Ziggurat said:

I am interested in hearing what you guys are doing with gain settings.  I am currently running the amps set at 12 o'clock on their own gain dials, simply because it a place to start, then using the Xilica's gain controls to fine tune.  I have found that I need to have the Xilica gain settings at or above 0db or I lose a certain clarity that can't be brought back with PEQ.

 

My HF sections seem to be louder than the LF sections, but only my LF amp has gain controls, so not sure how much this is going to help you. For now I'm talking LF only. My Crown XLS 1002 has 10 clicks on each channels Gain Control. I have them on the 7th click for no other reason than they need a decent amount of output to match up with my HF mono blocks and I did not want them maxed out. I figure if I am feeling more Bass-y I can always (and have) bumped them up one or two more clicks just for that song/album/night and put them back to 7 when done.

 

To actually match them to the HF I run pink noise from REW ( I don't see how you will possibly get where you need to be without REW ) and take measurements from one speaker at a time with a hand held SPL meter. I use the mute feature on Xilica to switch between HF and LF many time back and forth. Using Xilica's gain for that channel I move it up/down till the SPL meter reads the same. Once they are reading the same I do a little fine tuning by ear so the "sound" the same loudness to me.

 

28 minutes ago, Ziggurat said:

Next question, using X-Console, is there a way to 'copy' the PEQ settings you have dialed in for one channel, and 'paste' them to the another channel?  Or do you just have to manually duplicate them?

 

Yes! One of the menu items up top like Setup or Tools has a copy feature. This lets you select from multiple Xilicas (you probably only have one) then the channel From/To and checkboxes below for EQ, Gain, Mute, Delay, etc. It is super easy to use. Watch this 6 minute video I think it is in there somewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGBETZMuV4

 

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@rplace

 

Thanks! Very helpful!

 

Yes, will get REW and Umic at some point, after my wife has finished thrashing me for buying Jubes.  🙂

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I'm sure all of the Jube guys will help you out with settings as a starting point. But for my money I'd do as much as you can with your current set up. Get a Mini DSP microphone, REW and do your current set up soup to nuts. That way when you get your bass bins you will be more up to speed. That is my plan. I'm doing a large horn bass bin 2-way set up to cut my teeth on the learning part before I jump into the Jubilee waters. Wanted to make sure I was willing to do all this work prior to scrapping my passive set up and lay out the cash for Jubes. Sounds like  you are already committed to that.

 

EDIT: Posting same time. Mic is cheap and REW is free. You have done the hard part with the 402/bass bins. At this point I'm very happy with my sound. I've never heard Jubes but can't imagine how they can be much better....but based on all my reading they have to be.

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@rplace

 

I think you have captured my sentiment exactly.  Once the Jubes arrive I hope to be proficient enough and have the right gear to set them up quickly.  Again, thank you for your words.

 

Zig.

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Be sure and read all the posts by @Chris A there is a lot to digest but very helpful. Just a few days ago I wanted to start from scratch and see if I could duplicate/improve on what Chris has helped me with. Here is one post I found most helpful. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/182892-using-rew-to-determine-time-delays-between-drivers/#comments

 

I think it is important to note the order of those first 4 steps in his matrix

  1. Flatten the INDIVIDUAL drivers and set gain
  2. Pick crossover type and slope
  3. Take a measurement with all drives
  4. Read Delays

In my mind and in my messing around I was picking the XO points based on what I thought the drivers should be doing first. Then taking individual driver measurements and flatten then setting gain. I think the order above helped me get to a better place quicker.

 

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35 minutes ago, Ziggurat said:

@rplace

 

I think you have captured my sentiment exactly.  Once the Jubes arrive I hope to be proficient enough and have the right gear to set them up quickly.  Again, thank you for your words.

 

Zig.

 

Happy to help. I only hope I can give a tiny bit back to somebody and help them save some time/energy.

 

Chris has been crazy helpful to me. I'm starting to understand it all a bit better, but for the most part I'm just following a cake box recipe. I hope one day to go to the cupboard and just grab ingredients and make a cake from scratch. BTW, I'm pretty sure @Coytee is just picking up a sheet cake at the grocery on his way home....he does not even turn the oven on.:P I'm starting to think he is the smartest of all.

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@dtel

 

Apologies - I had meant to post this thread in Pro Audio.  Feel free to shift it 🙂. With thanks.

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From something you said (and the fact, IIRC, that the Xilica does not have digital inputs). I would study up on "gain structure". There is a nice white paper about this topic over at DIYaudio forums. You might want to sketch out and figure this out for your system. It will help you better use your DSP processor. You will also get an appreciation of why some folks have such difficulty with DSP processors. It does make a difference.

Good Luck,

-Tom

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You may have done this but when I dialed in my K2's....  what I did was with everything (literally everything, including the kitchen oven!!)  in the OFF position, I turned on my two amps.  Had gain at 100% and dialed them back until the hiss that I was hearing, became inaudible.

 

(actually, I did this with ONE speaker, not both)

 

Anyway, once the amps were dead quiet, I counted the clicks on the gain, copied those to the other amp and then started tinkering with the crossover.

 

By doing it that way, the amps are dead quiet, still loud enough and if I ever want to go stupid, I can simply turn them up.

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2 hours ago, rplace said:

BTW, I'm pretty sure @Coytee is just picking up a sheet cake at the grocery on his way home....he does not even turn the oven on.:P I'm starting to think he is the smartest of all.

 

I make a wicked coffee cake from scratch!!  No grocery store for me baby!!

Cinnamon Cake.pdf

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4 minutes ago, Coytee said:

  what I did was with everything (literally everything, including the kitchen oven!!)  in the OFF position, I turned on my two amps.  Had gain at 100% and dialed them back until the hiss that I was hearing, became inaudible.

 

Great tip Coytee!

 

(PS - Coffee Cake - My fave.  When you come and stay with me in New Zealand I will let you cook me one)

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Try the one I posted, I've gone through about four of them over the last three weeks (my brother in law is here and he discovered he LOVED it so has been showing the pouty face when it's gone)

 

 

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OH, and my wife would love to visit NZ so don't tempt me.

 

(being that close, I'd have to TRY to make a side trip to the South Pole & Australia to hit #6 & #7)

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6 minutes ago, Coytee said:

OH, and my wife would love to visit NZ so don't tempt me.

 

(being that close, I'd have to TRY to make a side trip to the South Pole & Australia to hit #6 & #7)

 

I assume you are referring to Bucket List #'s ? 

 

You are welcome here whenever you decide to visit - but you might need to help with one of my #'s when I come the USA 😉

 

 

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I want in on these trips... Have friends in Australia, they moved there in '82, live in Tasmania.

 

But NZ would be AWESOME! One of my co-workers is married to a guy from NZ. Simply a beautiful country.

 

And it isn't to far from the Philippines where I will be retiring.

 

Bruce

 

PS - I should be getting an active crossover very soon, so I can get my MWMs set up the right way. (had to make this relevant)

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How cool would it be to have a Klipsch get together on the other side of the world!!

 

A mysterious place where toilets flush backwards.... cats chase dogs and everyone agrees on which is better....tubes or solid state.

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23 hours ago, Ziggurat said:

@dtel

 

Apologies - I had meant to post this thread in Pro Audio.  Feel free to shift it 🙂. With thanks.

This is fine, but if you would rather have it in PRO send me a PM so I see it faster, it's completely up to you.

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Well I am really pleased I made the jump into this world of active crossovers and Klipsch monsters.  I have been playing around with the Xilica and have things sounding amazing - better than they have before.

 

I have ordered a Umik which will be with me next week so I can be a bit more scientific about the setup with REW, but even just tuning by ear has yielded fantastic results.

 

Initially I had the Macro-Tech driving the bass and the Power Tech up top, but the sound was forever trapped in a narrow band between the K402s. Swapped them over and now so the MT is doing the highs. No comparison, it far superior to its cheaper stable-mate. Once again I have a 3-d wall of sound, with super clarity. 

 

I can't wait to get this all set up properly when the Jubilee bins arrive... 

 

Now, what do we all think of this....?

 

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MI254

 

Could be nice one-box Jubilee solution?   Being new out there are no reviews to soak up..

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