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Chris A

Double Stack ESS AMT-1 with Wings--Possible Kit for Heritage

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I know the Heils have limited vertical coverage, but why is that so much of a concern?

Wouldn’t you have a to be really focusing on the music to tell if there are issues? And if so, why is someone doing critical listening from anyplace but the main-listening-position? Even if the whole family wants to watch a movie together, I would assume they would be doing so while sitting down, no?

I love having music play in the background as I’m working on other tasks, but the limited off axis vertical response rarely bothers me.

Even speakers like the Oris are directional and due to the nature of their horn flare, they have limited vertical and horizontal dispersion (relative to traditional non-waveguide/horn based speakers), but that never bothered me when I’m 60 degrees off axis while working in the kitchen.

Maybe there is more to it than current understanding (e.g, room interaction - phychoacoustics).




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3 months of usage have shown that vertical dispersion limits have no impact on enjoyment in real world listening situations.

 

I'm interested that @Rudy81 is reporting a hard set crossover frequency (via peq). When I went through the process with @Chris A we basically have all drivers running full range with peq adjustments to tame response towards flat, allowing the each driver's natural frequency response to handle the crossover. Or did miss something?

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31 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

3 months of usage have shown that vertical dispersion limits have no impact on enjoyment in real world listening situations.

 

I'm interested that @Rudy81 is reporting a hard set crossover frequency (via peq). When I went through the process with @Chris A we basically have all drivers running full range with peq adjustments to tame response towards flat, allowing the each driver's natural frequency response to handle the crossover. Or did miss something?

 

You are assuming facts not in evidence.  I do not have a 'hard set' crossover frequency.  I am using the 'no name' crossover technique that Chris mentions in various places.  I mention 600hz, because the no name crossover is set to mimic a L/R 24dB crossover near 600hz.  I don't see how you can run the Heils 'full range' without damaging the diaphragm when listening at reference levels. 

 

Or.....perhaps I have misunderstood your comment.

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6 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:

 

You are assuming facts not in evidence.  I do not have a 'hard set' crossover frequency.  I am using the 'no name' crossover technique that Chris mentions in various places.  I mention 600hz, because the no name crossover is set to mimic a L/R 24dB crossover near 600hz.  I don't see how you can run the Heils 'full range' without damaging the diaphragm when listening at reference levels. 

 

Or.....perhaps I have misunderstood your comment.

 

Totally fair, and maybe I'm still failing to grasp what Chris helped me setup. I just don't recall being able to see any sort of hard drop off in frequencies between my drivers once we were all done.

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I'm still trying to grasp how he took my REW files and was able to come back with the peq filters, channel gains, and whether to apply the filters on the output vs input.

 

I worry about the inevitable future where I make system changes and he's not around to do it for me.

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On 6/5/2020 at 6:50 PM, Rudy81 said:

 I found that an open baffle H frame with dual 18" Goldwood drivers might do the trick. 

I really like this design , can we see what these cabs look like  from the rear , and by curiosity , why does the open baffle design of the enclosure do so well with speakers that  have a limited   xmas ---

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6 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

 

I worry about the inevitable future where I make system changes and he's not around to do it for me.

 

It's not that hard. You just have to learn the steps and apply them in the right order. Time consuming at first.

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14 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

 

Totally fair, and maybe I'm still failing to grasp what Chris helped me setup. I just don't recall being able to see any sort of hard drop off in frequencies between my drivers once we were all done.

 

Perhaps Chris can chime in.  Heck, I may be out to lunch.....Covid brain and all.

 

My understanding is that you use PEQ to attenuate the undesired frequencies.  In my case, I use a shelf and a PEQ to attenuate the signal to -30dB. I can move the attenuation point just like you can set a named filter.

 

I can tell you this.  I'm not sending a loud 100hz to the heils!

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15 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

I'm still trying to grasp how he took my REW files and was able to come back with the peq filters, channel gains, and whether to apply the filters on the output vs input.

 

I worry about the inevitable future where I make system changes and he's not around to do it for me.

 

I use the EQ function in REW to create the PEQ points. I believe Chris does the same.

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15 minutes ago, RandyH said:

I really like this design , can we see what these cabs look like  from the rear , and by curiosity , why does the open baffle design of the enclosure do so well with speakers that  have a limited   xmas ---

 

Here you go.  I put two triangular braces behind the double thickness baffle.  The top brace helps support the heavy twin stack. The bottom brace has the speakon connector installed.

BottomSM.jpg

BackSm.jpg

ConnectionSM.jpg

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20 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

It's not that hard. You just have to learn the steps and apply them in the right order. Time consuming at first.

 

@rplace, I have to thank you!  It was your private comment about the 'man who loves open baffle, but has none' that motivated me to take third look at a fully OB system!!!! This time, with proper drivers for OB. Drivers with a high Qts. My previous experiments with an I and H frame were all done with Eminence Kappalites, which have a very low Qts and do not perform as well in an OB situation.

 

Research into open baffles after that motivation led to re-discover that one of the BIG benefits of OB is that they tend to cause fewer room mode problems than conventional boxes due to the physics of dipoles.  My REW runs the last few days proved that to be correct. 

 

Not to distract from the main thrust of this thread, the Heil AMT stack.  Just wanted to mention it since the OB LF completes the fully dipole speaker.

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So here's one of my channels.. sub on the left and then LS bass bin/Heils on the right

 

image.thumb.png.7cbc2016966333a18280f97ad1d31948.png

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@Chris A, nothing malicious here!

 

image.png.7467a788295e9ca48848f7bf4ccd4c1f.png

 

I'm only 38, and while you're not old and frail the possibility certainly exists that you and others here won't be around to help in 5-10 years as I build a new house or change rooms and gear, etc. We may just need to schedule an in-person session to spoon feed me your process. ;)

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Where can I buy a pair ? Or even two pair?
It would be great if someone would do a trade for some of my audio gear
Thanks


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2 minutes ago, carlthess40 said:

Where can I buy a pair ? Or even two pair?
It would be great if someone would do a trade for some of my audio gear
Thanks


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Links in the first page/post. Not sure if ess has them in stock though. Otherwise, I'm guessing eBay.

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Could I use these to make one of the diy speakers ?
This is a replacement, without the wings and all. As I think I could make a oem type wing frame myself
What I’d like to know is this. Is there something else inside the frame work to make these work? Like a transformer or something
63086a20eea7aa06b5e5e02b851ebe38.jpg


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3 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

@Chris A, nothing malicious here!

 

image.png.7467a788295e9ca48848f7bf4ccd4c1f.png

-----Hey Thad --you're old enough to teach the rest of us who are novice beginners

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Links in the first page/post. Not sure if ess has them in stock though. Otherwise, I'm guessing eBay.

The link is broken. But I found them in that website for 170 each

 

 

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1 minute ago, carlthess40 said:

Could I use these to make one of the diy speakers ?
This is a replacement, without the wings and all. As I think I could make a oem type wing frame myself
What I’d like to know is this. Is there something else inside the frame work to make these work? Like a transformer or something
63086a20eea7aa06b5e5e02b851ebe38.jpg


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, best bet would be to find a broken complete assembly  and make new bezels -

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49 minutes ago, carlthess40 said:

Could I use these to make one of the diy speakers ?
This is a replacement, without the wings and all. As I think I could make a oem type wing frame myself
What I’d like to know is this. Is there something else inside the frame work to make these work? Like a transformer or something
63086a20eea7aa06b5e5e02b851ebe38.jpg


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You are missing the magnet structure!

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