The mothership has arrived, and it brought Audio Nirvana with it.

[justin_tx_16]

Ok. So after all the wait, more than 2 years, I was actually able to get real Klipsch speakres. For that time period I was being teased of what I could be getting with my countless ProMedia systems and my <?xml:namespace prefix = st2 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Dads ever changing Synergy line up.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

A fellow Klipsch lover, and board posted, sent me an email asking if I really wanted a set of Heresys. He had an old set he had gotten while a reviewer for a major home audio/video publication. I said yes. Who wouldnt, right? He sold them to me at a price NO one could have resisted. A few weeks after the initial offer they arrive at my door step.

The first audition, as most everyone reading this post knows, was not one I would like to repeat. Using a 12 year old cd player and an amp that crosses over at 130 Hz, rated at 60 watts at 4ohms, for the Klipsch ProMedia satellites. It was hell to say the least. No highs, no lows, no nothing really. I knew that I should not expect too much anyways, but posted my review for fun It got much more attention than I had expected.

I was advised so many different things. Get a tube, get a solid state. Buy new, buy vintage. Get Denon, no Onkyo. Yamaha is the way to go. Go budget, go all out. Girls like tubes, tubes are slow for bass. Solid state is the best (faster, louder, whatnot), solid state is hissy, dry, mechanical. Get something ugly, get something to attract attention. Get cheap cable, get monster cable. And that is just to name a few.

I decided to throw caution, and advice, to the wind. I had expected a Marantz tube amp. Turns out the shop it was sent to has no recollection of it. I had a Marantz PM500, $OLD! But wait. What about this Technics from the 80s? (I was convinced that the only thing good to come out of the 80s was Saved By the Bell and myself)

The Technics, coupled with my Sony of 12 years sounded great. It got loud, it got low, it was clear and precise. Everything I had expected. But then I listened closer. It has hiss, it was unbalanced, it was picky with the RCA inputs.

I got a 5 disc Sony CD player and a RadioShack Preamp. The CD player was great, the Preamp lets not go there ok?

So I went back for help. Started up a riot or two in the two channel audio forum. Once again, I threw all the advice away and went to work on finding a new amp. The next day, at a Texas A&M game (Tech vs. ATM what a game!) I get a call. Hey <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas:contacts" />Justin, this is Andy, HDBR from the bulletin board, can we talk? Of course I say yes.

So he talked, and I listened as best I could over the massive cheers and yells, for about an hour more or less. HDBR convinced me that for what I want, a Harman Kardon HK430 is more than I need, and at a price 1/10 of what I was going to spend on something. I was doubtful I must say. But I took his advice, for once, and put a bid in for a Harman Kardon HK430. He told me that he normally gets them for $30-40. That is cheap!

Well, needless to say I was not that patient. I just did the Buy It Now after consulting with the seller. I help him setup his home theater and he will pay shipping. Well, shipping turned out to be $51.50! So, instead of paying $70 over what most pay, I only paid $10 more.

Two days later I win a PWK coffee cup and two PWK pens. Woo hoo! They look great next to my Reference pens and coffee mug.

Well. About that same time I get another call from our friendly Heresy Decorator Birch Raw builder. (hope I got that right!) We talked for wow, nearly 2 hours! He gave me more than I could ever want to know about the history of Klipsch, HarmanKardon, Yamaha, Technics, and whatever else popped into our conversation. I was thrilled to pick up all this info. Wish I had recorded it and had it transcribed, though I am pretty sure I have it all down now.

Andy set me up with a plan of action as I receive the receiver. He suggested this and that and I paid careful attention to remember every detail. And just incase I didnt he posted it on the bulletin board! J.

Finally! December 3, 2002 arrives and I get an email from UPS that my package is delivered. I check the UPS tracking number on the UPS site and see that at around 11:30 EST it was dropped off.

At about 12:30 EST I stop by the house it was delivered to. It was not there! No note, nothing. Grrr I say! So when I get to work I check it again. Now it is in transit in Washington where it came from! Double grrr.

Today it came. A box as white as snow, 3 feet by 1 foot by 3 feet. As I open it a cloud of Styrofoam surrounds my little home theater room. (55 MITS HDTV, Klipsch ProMedia 5.1, DD-51, XBOX, Sony DVP-NS400D, yadda yadda)

Inside of this white box I find another white box. Wow doubled boxed I say. So I get my pocket knife and open up the box. A fresh sheet of bubble wrap appears. As I take that off I see a translucent plastic bag. I take that off and find another wrapping of bubble wrap, this time smaller bubbles. I take that off and there is a foam sheet surrounding the unit! Holy cow this guy REALLY wanted it to get to me in good condition!

And in good condition it was. It looked as new as the Harman Kardon PM4000 that came to my office today. HarmanKardon sure makes some sleek electronics! Not a scratch on it, not a stain, not anything I could see. I open it up, get a can of air and let it blow. Guess how massive the dust was in there, knowing that the piece is over 20 years old. None. Not a bit of dust arose from the inside of the amp. Wow I say.

I give the potentiometers a good squirt with some contact cleaner and twist them around. I get some mild soap and warm water and wipe down the chassis and cover. Lookn good though I did not actually get anything off of this sparkling unit.

So, the test. I connect the CD player via Acoustic Research Audio cables I got for ½ price. I pop in The Mask of Zorro, DianaKrall, NorahJones, Last of the Mohicans and AvrilLavigne, you know, the usual. The sound is great. At a flat setting there is bass I had never heard before, and I was impressed with the Technics!

At 10 oclock on the volume knob it is loud enough that I have to step away from the receiver. I cannot imagine going any higher unless I was really rocking out.

The tuner was the next test. Anyone seen an old tuner? Wow! Talk about putting things to a science. All those mechanical parts moving with such fluidity. All you care to know is that it picks up stations I did not know we had, and reports to me on its glowing dial that it is in stereo and how good the signal is. Most all are between 5 and 10 on the meter. Sound as good as you would expect or better. I say better than any tuner I have which is a 5 year old Sony.

I need to get the camera out and take a picture of this beauty with the lights off. Who cares about glowing tubes, look at this!

So. Thanks for all the advice I did not take. Thanks for giving it to me even though you probably guessed I would do something else. Most thanks to Andy who has elevated me to a higher level of hi-fi, at minimal cost.

Some day I expect to get a nice tube amp, a great sub and some more Klipsch Heritage speakers. But for now, and through college, I could not want anything more.

Thanks again. And if anyone is looking for a GREAT amplifier or receiver, check out the HK 430. For $30-40 how can you lose? Just sell it again! Maybe for more.

[m00n]

Right on Justiin....

[PYRO]

Alrighty Then!

[HDBRbuilder]

Justin,

Glad you like it! There really IS something to be said for a little piece of equipment with technology over 25 years old, that weighs about 25 lbs and is built like a tank, isn't there? LOL! But, the BIG question is...will the college "babes" be impressed???? LOL! The best part about it is that when your less knowledgable college aquaintances hear the Heresys with the little "twin-powered" H/K 430, and say "Wow, how many watts does that thing have, anyway??" You can say "A whole TWENTY-FIVE per channel...AND it was made a DECADE before WE WERE EVEN BORN!!" That outta burst a few bubbles!! LOL!

Just take good care of it and those Heresys, and they will both take good care of YOU! You should be all set for a few college years now, and if anything ever goes wrong with that H/K 430, you can most likely pick up another one on eBay for cheap...unless posts like these drive the prices up over the next few years! LOL!

Another thing, now that you have saved so much money on your college system base, maybe it is time to grab up some other BB members' recommended items with some of your savings. Just a thought, but you may be able to find some of your future needs on eBay alot cheaper now than later...and after you head off to college, it would be nice to come home on breaks to a system you are building while you are in college. Keep your eye out for an old Dynaco FM-3 tuner...for your later tube set-up...damned good little unit and can often be picked up for a song.

I am kinda wondering what your audiophile father's impression of the old H/K with those Heresys is?? And, just for the heck of it, why don't you hook up that NEW amp you are getting for that system you are installing in your Mom's house...and do an A/B comparison between it and the H/K 430 on those Heresys...using the same source equipment...in stereo mode! I would be interested in reading about your impressions of today's "modern" tech in S/S vs. the S/S tech available in 1976(the year your H/K 430 could likely have been originally sold NEW!)...ESPECIALLY since your 430 was just about the "bottom of the line" in H/K's RECEIVER offerings back then!! It outta prove interesting, to say the least!!

[Audible Nectar]

I see that another has lost their virginity. You never forget your first Heritage! Isn't Heritage wonderful

Don't forget that polygamy is accepted here Just make sure that you let the Heresys know before bringing in any more "partners"....

Congrats!

[HDBRbuilder]

Justin,

Here are the specs on your new toy, as published in 1975-1976. The data is a composite of that given in "Stereo Review's Stereo Directory & Buying Guide 1976" and the "Off Duty Magazine Hi Fi Annual '76". The composite below is to provide ALL the published specs of both sources and to correct a typo in the Stereo Review version.

Harman/Kardon 430 - Stereo tuner-amplifier. Power output 25 watts rms per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) with 0.5% THD, both channels driven. Frequency response 4-40,000 Hz at 0.5% THD into 8 ohms with both channels driven at 1 W/ch. Power bandwidth 10-40,000 Hz. IM distortion 0.12% at rated power output. Hum & noise -65 dB (unweighted), damping factor 40. AM/FM stereo tuner with 1.9 uV FM sensitivity, S/N ratio 77 dB, alternate channel selectivity 50 dB, capture ratio 1.7 dB, channel separation 39 dB with 0.7% harmonic distortion (stereo), image rejection 60 dB, spurious response rejection 82 dB. Features signal strength meter, defeatable interstation muting, loudness switch, high and low-frequency filters, tape monitor circuit, front panel headphone jack, outputs and switches for two sets of stereo speakers. Size in inches: 17 X 14.5 X 5.5. Weight: 24 lbs. Suggested list price(at time of publishing in 1975): $319.99

Remember, the above are published specs, but I sincerely believe these units tend to outperform these given specs in at least most instances!

Justin, be sure to give H/K customer service dept. a call...no sense in paying on eBay for what they will send you for free...remember? All you gotta do is ask!

[rowooo]

Justin, congrats...........by the way a lot of great things came out of the eighties but I won't bore you with my long list. Saved by the bell was almost entirely shot in the early nineties, and don't ask me why I know that, O.K. Kelly was and still is HOT!

[Jim Cornell]

Andy hey buddy

What about the old Pioneer SX sereis?

Have you ever heard, or owned one of these?

Jim

[HDBRbuilder]

Jim,

Yes...I heard em all...LOL! You gotta remember...I was stationed overseas in Italy back then...we had no TV in English around the area, and stereo systems were the MAIN entertainment! It wasn't any big deal to walk into ANY Squad bay in the barracks' over their and see spread out into every nook and cranny a fortune in audio gear!! Those old Pioneers were pretty good in their day, but it seems they went more for higher wattage output and lost a little bit of something in the process. For Japanese branded S/S equipment, they were pretty damned good though...and generally very reliable. Had some of the better tuners of their breed, too! One thing for sure, those Pioneers and such sure had lots of bells and whistles on em, but they also generally go for more than just 30-40 bucks today on eBay, too!!

Even H/K's own S/S "twin-powered" series lost something as you moved up the line in power output, though...IMHO!! To my ears, the only benefit you got over the 430 model was more power as you moved "up" to the 630, then the 730(which replaced the 630 in the line-up), and then the 930(but the 930 DID have the best tuner of that bunch, with its FET front-end!), otherwise you were lots better-off going for the 430 if you had efficient speakers to begin with! Its cost to performance ratio was, and still is, damned good!

One thing about the H/K 430 is that it is a relatively simple receiver...minimal bells and whistles, but still enough to play around with the music some, if that is your desire! As a good S/S match to Heresys, it is hard to beat, too...even moreso today!

From my listening experiences, it seems that by the end of the 1970's, something really bad had occurred in the products of the day...there were fewer and fewer offerings in affordable price ranges that had good sound...I have no idea why, though!! Maybe it was due to trying to keep prices down in a world economy that was hurting...but, it sure left the average consumer with a much less enjoyable listening experience!! And it seems that, by and large, the products in the affordable range to the average consumer never recovered from these changes!

[Deang]

The nice thing about low powered solid state like this HK, is that transistors aren't required to be paired up in order to get high output -- So, little, or no crossover distortion.

Congrats Justin -- enjoy the music!

[arfz28]

Congrats Justin on your heresys and hk-430. Yes there is just something special about the older audio equipment, the looks of those older receivers are just awsome.I always prefer the look of the older receivers over the newer receivers.Look out now the price of the hk-430 may be going up.LOL.

[justin_tx_16]

I will hopefully get the camera home tomorrow so I can get some pics of this receiver with the lights on and off. It looks great with the lights off!

I moved the setup inside the house, out of the pool house. Now I am just steps away. It rests in my brother's room. Luckily he is off in college so I can do pretty much whatever uptil the day before he arrives home.

This weekend I hope to work with my dad to build a set of risers for the Heresy's.

Consider this.

Speakers - $300

Receiver - $100

CD Player - $100

$500 for this 2 channel setup. That is amazing! I don't think it is possible to do any better than that!

I brought home the PM4000. Since I do not have a preamp, I just used the volume controls on the back. It sounded very similar to the HK430. Plenty of oomph and great overall sound. But it lacks the warmth that this vintage unit has. And that amp cost me $900! Well, cost my mom $900. It is going to be used to power 12 Niles CM6HD's. I had ordered the Klipsch SCR-2's but the dealer is all out and would not get them in time for the Christmas party at the house. They did not charge me for the difference either which was kind.

Bottom line here is this HK430 for $100, often gotten for $30-40, beats out the $900 amp that is brand new. Makes you feel good. Now, I would never try to make the HK430 power 12 inceiling speakers, but you can get an idea of how it sounds.

HDBR, what does the "contour" button do? I can tell it increases the bass and makes things sound fuller, but what is the theory/story/name meaning, behind it? It does not sound very good turned on with my headphones, but with the speakers it is great!

You said that I would get increased bass. No joke. I get so much bass I question why I would need a sub with heresy's. When you get REAL low you do notice a drop in volume, but for music, that is a rarity. If I every do get a sub for this I want something very musical to match the musically talented speakers. Unfortunately it seems that an SV subwoofer would not be the best for this situation, as far as I am told. A more musical sub would be a Sunfire or RSW. The RSW's are what I am leaning towards, but for price the Sunfires are ideal. But I keep remembering that at this point I don't hear any need for a sub. Besides, the amp does not have a subwoofer output, so how would I do this anyway? I could get a DD-51 and use it as a preamp to the receiver I suppose. The only times I feel I want a sub is when I am blasting away so I can swim and still have good music... too cold for that now LoL!

I am going to send off the Technics amp to get it freshened up. All we need to fix is the headphone jack (started to sound terrible) and fix that hiss.

The Technics amp was 40 watts per channel, and I can honestly say that this amp at 25 watts per channel blows it away in volume. Both are in the same time period I suppose, 1980ish and 1970ish.

HDBR. I am using 12ish gauge Monster Cable. Don't worry, I did not pay big bucks for it. I feel that is idiotic for what you are getting. (I checked the monster cable in my dad's room... it is green about 5 inches on the bare ends!). Anyways, I had to really thin it out to fit into the HK430 cable inputs. I found some MonsterCable and Acoustic Research and RadioShack gold (24K) pins that would fit into the sockets. Do you think this is worth ~$6.95? I don't like to have the cables just sticking in and kinda scraggly looking. I am also afraid that any excess may someday, somehow hit the other wire and do some damage. They have them as these flat pins and as what look to nearly be RCA jacks, similar to banana plugs without the puff. Will those work? They are heavier and have more surface area. The same goes for on the speaker end. I would really like to put some spades on the end to make it easier to connect and disconnect and keep them more organized, but the only spades i can find are plain metal, not even copper. I will try PartsExpress tonight I suppose.

Call me crazy but I like gold connections. The amp does not have gold RCA plugs, obviously. If I went out and got some from RadioShack or mouser or partsexpress, would it be worth it? They are incredibly snug as it is... and sound great, why do I even want to do this?!

The amp is in prestine condition, better than what appeared on the eBay posting. The glass is so nice and the glow hypnotic. The only blemish is on the control knobs. Well, I should say WAS on the control knobs. I squirted some contact cleaner on that and wiped away the blemishes.

On to the contact cleaner... why does it make loud pops when it hits the item to be cleaned? Just curious

Norah and Diana are singing their hearts out for me while I type this. It has never sounded better!

Now the delima. I have three ProMedia 5.1's, two ProMedia 4.1's, two ProMedia 2.1's and one ProMedia v2.400. What do I do with all of these now? Once you get this kind of sound, listening to these already amazing setups is hard (cost/performance). Two ProMedia 5.1's I will keep, college and the home theater I made. But the others... I am too attached to sell... I sure hope I don't turn into an EARS! He has a stockpile of speakers... as do I but on a lower price end.

After two days I still have no regrets about these purchases! Not even a "I wish" that is logical, as in "I wish I had some Belles with this"... that is illogical for a kid about to go to college

[HDBRbuilder]

Justin,

I had my suspicions that the higher dollar new H/K amp would not have the warmth of the old 430. I just wanted to hear it from someone who is not prejudiced. LOL!

Boy, one day, and you have serious upgrade fever already!! Must be a new record!! Here goes:

No reason why you can't find a bank of banana connectors or any other connector and replace the speaker connectors on the H/K. It is best to ensure a good fit there, though...all of the current speaker connectors are attached to a screw-on plate, so you need to make sure you can replace that plate with one the same size. The same for the RCA connectors, should you decide to change over to gold-plated ones...they are on a screw-on plate too! It isn't like your old H/K has stacks of circuitry in the way in its inside rear area that would pose a problem changing this out, so it is up to you and your soldering skills, should you decide to go this route.

The reason the speaker connections on that model have small openings for bare wires is that the most commonly used speaker wire of that day was 8 guage lamp-type cord with bare wire ends used, therefore the openings in those spring-loaded clamp-type connectors are made for it...or smaller wire. The small connecting surface in those types of connectors are good for a bare wire set-up, because they clamp down onto it and the wire conforms to the shape of the clamping SURFACE...but for any other type of connector to be inserted, instead of bare wire, that connector MAY not make as good of a contact to that type of connection....unless it is malleable enough to conform to the surface inside those connectors. Rule of thumb is to make as much contact in connections as possible, so as to provide LESS resistance at that point. Those type of connectors on the H/K were a compromise for convenience in lieu of the standard screw-down connectors most commonly found in that era. Many folks just replace them with a bank of screw-down connectors, and solder or crimp a mate for it to the speaker wires to solve the problem. What you do is your choice.

Contour: Contour is a type of "loudness" control used for low volume listening. Many so-called loudness controls were actually contour control, but some were not! As listening volumes decrease below a certain threshold, the ability of the human ear to pick up the higher and lower frequencies diminishes. Therefore, in a true contour mode, as the volume CONTROL is turned down, the higher and lower frequencies are given a gradual boost....so that your ears pick them up easier. In other words, the "flat" frequency response is "contoured" at each end of the spectrum, raising the level of highs and lows "for your listening pleasure." LOL! There is a problem in this though. Different speaker types have different rates of high and low frequency performance characteristics given the same power input...therefore, for a truly perfect contour effect, it needs to be fully adjustable, and that was normally only available on a very few extremely high-end/high-dollar units of that era, and even then the adjustability was limited. With your Heresys on that particular H/K, you will probably never have the need to use the contour switch very often unless you have the volume WAY DOWN, because the speakers are so efficient to begin with! As the volume is raised with the contour switch kicked in, the contour function gradually diminishes until it is no longer in effect, even though you still have it switched on! Does that answer your question?

Popping when you use contact cleaner/lube: Please don't tell me you used this while the unit was ON! LOL! If there is popping, it can be for a number of reasons...it can be the temperature difference between the COLD pressurized squirt and the metal being squirted, causing a popping sound...or it can be that certain grunges are releasing themselves as the cleaner makes contact...or it can be the release of the cleaner from its pressurized can through the small tube causing it(liquid pushing against evaporated liquid in the tube, which still has some liquid at the tip of the tube...and when the pressure is enough from the can end, a "pop" occurs as the liquid at the other end lets the air or evaporated liquid between the two ends through...just like when the cork is blown out of the end of a popgun). Without being there when it happens, it is hard for me to make the correct call on this question.

I hope this clears up some of your questions. I still would like to know your father's opinion on your current set-up, though. LOL!

[justin_tx_16]

Thanks HDBR.

Yes. The PM4000 sounded slightly dry and cold compared to the HK450. Tell me, do you think there is any relation to the PM line of Harman Kardon and the old PM line of Marantz?... I had a PM500.

So I can easily replace the RCA jacks and the spring type clips? Great. I will work on that this weekend I hope. I am going to put in the gold plated RCA jacks and banana plugs.

At night I use the Contour option. I figured it was like Pioneers "Midnight" effect.

No no, I did not have the HK430 on when I did the squirt'n. I let it sit unplugged from everything for about 5 minutes to insure it had fully discharged .

[AndyKubicki]

Justin, congratulations on your whole decision making process as well as you acquisition! Although I have recently ventured into the tube realm with my Scott, I am curious what the older Marantz would sound like through my Khorns. I cannot afford the tube Marantz, so I'm thinking of those older SS, which I can use on the hotter days of summer when I don't want the heat generated by a tube amp. I used to have a Model 22 which I got through my best friend who was in the service back in the 70s. He bought a Pioneer SX-1000, and yes, it had bells and whistles alright. But when you turn it on you look for the rattle snake! Talk about hiss!!! The Marantz had a clean sound, but I did not have Klipsch at that time, and found those 40 watts were not enough for the speakers I had. But I sold that to my cousin, who as of the last time I heard from him, said it works great!

Maybe Andy has heard the Marantz SS units I'm talking about? How do Marantz and HK compare to each other (older SS)? Andyone made this comparison?

[JasN00b]

ahhh nice job justin

i especially like to see people who are filthy rich still go for cheap deals that sound just as good as the expensive ones

but justin.... avril is soooo baaaaaaad

sooo baaaaaad

SO BAD

BAAAAAAD

the oppisite of GOOOOD

ok i'm done.

[HDBRbuilder]

My experiences surrounding the older Marantz S/S units was varied. Fact is, that the Marantz reputation was being whittled away at the time I was stationed overseas in Germany and Italy in the mid-70's. Funny thing is, that if Marantz hadn't had so many quality control problems at the time, they would likely have been the MAJORITY of the receivers/amps bought by all those guys around me!! For a number of years, they HAD been the receiver of choice there...but something happened to their quality control in those years that cost them quite a few sales there. I, myself, seriously contemplated the purchase of a Marantz, but I also didn't just jump up and start buying equipment as soon as I arrived, like most of my fellow buddies did. For almost two years, I sat back, and watched and listened before making any purchases. I also read up on equipment, did countless listening tests, kept my eye out on what pieces of equipment tended to have to be returned for service(and whether the individual who was returning that piece was one who took care of his/her equipment, or wasn't). I also waited for the opportunity to pick up even better deals on equipment than the already low prices that were standard for us soldiers. For some odd reason, I had more or less not even considered a purchase of any of the H/K models...they didn't have the bells and whistles of other offerings in their price range...and most all neophytes get taken in by those bells and whistles! H/K also didn't have the bigtime full-color multi-page advertising of many of the other popular brands of that time...and they didn't have their own little "niche" in the showrooms where all of the available models of a partucular brand would be gathered up together. So, they tended to be overlooked and their sales reflected it.

One of the advantages I had was my having struck up a friendship with the main service tech at the Audio Club. We had lots of the same interests...OUTSIDE of audio. He was in his mid-50's, married to an Italian woman, and had retired from the military and stayed over there after getting a job as a service tech a number of years before. I figure he had over ten years worth of experience in his field as a tech, and I respected his opinions. My goal was to get the most bang for the buck in my upcoming purchases.

One day, after doing some trap-shooting, we were sitting having a beer. Over the previous almost two years his knowledge had proven invaluable in some of the decisions I had made towards units I intended to purchase. He said, "Well...when are you gonna finally get around to making the rest of all these purchases? You have sure as hell been more patient about it than any soldier on this base!!" I said "Well, I have already purchased SOME of it, and other stuff I am just waiting for the right clearance sale or whatever to pop up, but I have still not decided about my power supply...I would like to get separates, but some of the receivers are also looking good to me. I like Marantz, but am worried about having to have repairs made on it regularly, but there are some others that I like too!" He said "Let's have another beer, and then you come over to my house...we will catch the bus together...alot easier than trying to give you directions!"

Once inside his house, I was simply overwhelmed!! This guy had audio equipment in EVERY ROOM...not just a system for every room, but STACKS of equipment!! I couldn't believe it all!! We walked from room to room, as his wife stood there just shaking her head...LOL! He went through a description of everything he had...it took hours!! "this is the Marantz so and so...the little tube baby that made em famous...this is the McIntosh so and so, probably the best whatever of its kind still made today...etc...etc." LOL!

Then he said "you are wanting a quad system, though...you have already decided on your speakers, reel deck, turntable and cartridge combo, cassette deck and noise reduction unit...and you have made some very good choices. Your problem is your power supply, now. If you go for separates, it will cost you a fortune, but if you go for a receiver, it still won't be cheap...and the more bells and whistles a unit has, the more likely it will eventually have a problem....not so much in the fact that the bells and whistles will break, but in the fact that the heat will get trapped in there and other things will break!! I don't have a quad system here, but I think I know what you are looking for after listening to all your jabber about what you want the last couple of years....let's go in the living room and do some comparisons."

Well...we did some comparisons between different stereo models of receivers...using different speakers...to hear the differences in each power supply through differing speakers. With each model/brand of receiver we listened to, he would say "this is basically the stereo version of 'X-brand's' quad unit, model 'whatever.' They sound about alike and the return for sevice rate is 'whatever'"...and so on. At midnite!!!...he said "now I want you to listen to this baby, I have saved it for last." It was an H/K 430!! LOL! We listened, and he told me all about how much quality it had, and how tough it was, and how it just didn't get the attention it deserved...but most of all, how good and clean for a non-tube unit its sound was!! He told me about the glowing reviews on it, too...but he said the proof is in the listening...and it was!! Then he talked about its quad big brother...said it was very clean sounding and had warmth, but not quite the punch in the quad modes...but could be strapped into stereo mode and sound about the same, but with more power. "They have discontinued their quad models for next year, but we still have ONE at the shop...it is a demo, and it has already had the service bulletin repair made on it...4 transistors had to be replaced...something about a bad batch of em. It normally runs around a grand stateside, and over here normally runs around 650 bucks...if you want, I will bring it home tomorrow and you can give it a listen before it has to go back out on the floor! It has everything you want on it, and so far these units just haven't been coming in for any repairs...hell, we can't even get the guys to return em for this service bulletin thing!! But it will disappear pretty fast once it is back out on the floor, since we are gonna discount it out of the store."

Next day, I gave it a listen at his place, and my decision was made!! I grabbed it up the next day at 432 bucks!! I still have it...an H/K 900+!! It is one helluva unit, too!...even TODAY!!

The point of all of this is two-fold. Yes, I heard the Marantz models of those years, and no, I didn't buy one. My biggest worry with Marantz was initially its quality control...but I also found something else that sounded better to me!! So, in my opinion, for what you pay today for used equipment from Marantz, and what you pay for used H/K, and the edge some of that H/K stuff has over the Marantz stuff in the listening department, H/K is the better option. I am still a "most bang for the buck" person! Sure, Marantz has a legendary name, as does H/K...but unlike Marantz, H/K has led itself into the mid-stream consumer realm over the years...and in many ways their current "sound" reflects that. But back then, what they made in S/S was generally damned good!! As good or better than any comparable Marantz offering, IMHO!!

My suggestion: If 40 bucks or so is within your budget(less shipping), and since you are already pushing those k-horns with low wattage, then give an H/K 430 a try. If you find that you don't like it, it is a minimal investment and you can easily get rid of it. If you opt for a Marantz unit, it will likely cost you much more, and you can get rid of it easily if you don't like it too. But why bother paying more to begin with? Just a suggestion.

[dougdrake]

Jas - Assume you mean Bad as in Good, not really the opposite of bad, for Avril? Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but I think her entire CD (every track) is great. Simple, straightforward, punky and with attitude. Maybe it's the 16-year old in me that never grew up and it takes me back to the day. Any girl that's willing to put a cockroach on her tongue on a $100 bet on MTV isn't your typical pop fluff (a la BS, CA, etc...).

JMO

[JasN00b]

its boring music.

why listen to avril when you could listen to led zepplin?

[arfz28]

Great story hdrbuilder, makes me want to get a hk430 and try it out on my k-horns just to see what it sounds like. For a hundred bucks what a steal this unit must be, sounds like you gave Justin some good advice.