I kept my mouth shut !!!!

[Dale W]

Well we have allready beat this topic to death, but my god i had a hard time keeping my mouth shut the other night.

The wife and i went over to a friend of a friends house for some christmas cheer. Well the men were all downstairs admiring the new "BOSE " system this guy just bought. Well i had to stand there and endure the proud new owners glooting over his new purchase. Well saying nothing just seemed to get me deeper into trouble, not joining in on the conversation got a directed question to me buy the new bose dude. Went something like " whats the matter guy don't you know much about stereo gear" .

Well i just smiled back at him and said " OH IS THAT WHAT THIS IS " .

[justin_tx_16]

----------------

On 12/20/2002 11:18:49 AM DALE WALKER wrote:

Well i just smiled back at him and said " OH IS THAT WHAT THIS IS " .

----------------

Classic!

[BBB]

You know , for some reason reading your post , Dale, reminded me of a story I havent thought about for years. (Did I hear everyone say Oh Noooooo!) Anyway, I used to be into marine fish and had about 8 large tanks of them. My main show tank had thousands of dollars worth of fish in it. Something happened to me that landed me in the hospital for nearly 6 months. I never knew when I was going to get out of there so I had my brother-in-law take care of my aquariums with specific instructions for their maintenance. A physician friend of mine came to see me just before I was released and said he wanted to check out my house to see if I needed anything in it so I could move around in a wheel chair and crutches in it O.K..I told him to check out my fish, especially my main tank ,that had about 50 fish in it. He came to me the next day and I asked him what he thought of my tanks. He just said Nice fish and quickly went on to another subject. A few weeks later I get home and Ive got ONE fish left ! The rest died. I was fuming. I saw my doctor friend a couple of days later and found out he didnt want to upset me about my fish loss while I was still hospitalized. I said Hey Doc . Why didnt you tell me the truth after seeing my aquariums with nothing but water and only one lonely fish left? He said Ive always told you the truth. When you asked me about it I said NICE FISH didnt I? DOH!

[Dale W]

The olny thing worse than fielding this insult was listening to the bassless performance of his over priced under acheiving garbage gear.

nothing like a bunch of drunk no it alls oww ing and ahh ing over a set up thats worth less than my smallest amp. Fact of the matter is , i paid more for my monster cable sigma series speaker cables than he paid for his whole set up.

Maybe i am the dumb one !! I sure spent a lot of cash to get the same performance of a bose system . ha ha . lol .

[jdm56]

It's quite a tribute to Bose' marketing technics that the general (non-audiophile) population in this country really believes that Bose is the best name in audio. How do they do it? By convincing people that they can give them what they want; great sound, without the size, cost and complexity of "traditional" audio components and speakers. Of course, we know they are really selling snake oil.

[HDBRbuilder]

been there, done that...WAY TOO MANY TIMES!! LOL!

It really sucks to have to stand there tight-lipped while some idiot goes on and on about his high-dollar, but crappy-sounding system, seeking approval and excited audio talk from those around him...BUT...the worst part of it all is having to listen to the NOISE coming out of the system!! Especially when they want to crank it up in order to impress everybody!!

I just tend to stand there, teeth clenched, with a feigned smile on my face, while thinking "what they don't know won't hurt them...what they don't know won't hurt them...what they don't know won't hurt them"...LOL!...When what I REALLY want to do is take the components and speakers out back and use them as clay pigeons for some trap shooting!

On occassion, I have been lucky enough to let "trap-shooting" slip through my teeth loud enough that somebody heard it, and got on that subject...which got us into another room AWAY from the NOISE...so that I was saved from letting something even worse slip out and end up totally screwing up my "first impressions" status by becoming some "know-it-all jerk" on audio to my new aquaintenances...LOL!

In those situations, I have found it a much better way to "enlighten the unknowing" by inviting them over at a later date for a reciprocal bit of cheer. And not even going INTO audio when they arrive, but instead clandestinely have the music playing, and let them begin to discover what REAL speakers sound like.

Invariably, they will either be impressed and want to know all about the system, OR they will feel obliged to "feel like idiots after their going on and on about their systems, previously"...and say nothing. Those who say nothing in that situation, are generally not worthy of my friendship, because I want friends who can admit when they are wrong! Pretty simple! Because I readily admit it when I AM WRONG! *** for tat! I want "straight-shooters" around me, and have no tolerance for anything less in my friends! That is one of the reasons I spend so much time on this BB!

[BerndH]

About 2 years ago my friend bought a cheap show room model of bose. He showed it very proud and asked me how i feel about the sound. When i said "not bad for that size" it was nearly a lie. He had better done with his pair of Infinity. These reasonably sounding speakers were never connected after he moved and bought these Bose crap.

Bernd

[sunnysal]

He probably told you that you wouldn't have a limp either...! I hope that is not the same doctor that told me about the "little dark spot" on my x-rays, which were probably "finger smudges"...honest doctors are a life and death thing...lol! tony

[TBrennan]

There's alot worse snake-oil than Bose being sold out there. How about expensive "high-end" speakers with $45 worth of drivers from the Madisound Or PE catalog. How about little stones and wooden discs that are supposed to improve your sound. There's alot more nonsense out there than Bose. Bose isn't that expensive and some of the stuff sounds pretty decent and some sounds better than some gear that costs much more.

Frankly I think you guys rapping Bose are kinda pathetic and unsure of yourselves, it's like you want everybody to know you're in the club too, yeah, I'll jump on Bose, then I'll be accepted as a true audiophile. Who gives a ****.

www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org

[jtkinney]

I can't comment firsthand about Bose, since I have never heard them. But I was bored at work and happened to be looking at the Sound & Vision equipment reports and saw the Bose AM15 system listed. So I looked at the lab report written by Mr. Tom Nousaine. The satellite speakers have a pair of 2.5" cone drivers with 85.1 dB sensitivity and a response from 280 to 13,300 Hz +/- 10.5 dB. The subwoofer has a pair of 5.5" cone drivers with a response from 46 to 202 Hz +/- 2.3 dB. The price is $1400.

I know I can't compare the sensitivity with my K-horns, but what about the response? Is there no music or movie audio from 202 to 280 Hz? Quite a gap it seems.

[skonopa]

How about expensive "high-end" speakers with $45 worth of drivers from the Madisound Or PE catalog.

Hmmm, all along, that is what I thought Bose was .

[Dale W]

Tbrennan : I'll jump on bose, then i'll be accepted as a true audiophile. Who gives a **** .

Can you read or you just looking to piss on someone today ?? The fact of the matter was the guy was a snuaghty drunk ******* to me and it really didnt matter his gear was bose, it was the manner in wich he presented himself to me.

" TRUE AUDIOPHILE " ?? Sorry man but i'm years away from claiming any fame to that logo. I read every book i can buy or find , having any relationship to electronics. Yet in my circle of audio friends , i'm considered less than a audio flee. my tiny little $50 k is a mirror drop in the bucket compared to the 200 -300k range these guys play in.

name tags are for those seeking a ego boost . Sorry to dissapoint you but i remain label less.

And i did own a pair of 801 bose, right up to the time i exploded the drivers.

[HDBRbuilder]

Tom,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe I even mentioned BOSE in my post here...I was referring to crappy sounding systems in general!! And I have heard gobs of them over the years...both inexpensive AND expensive!!

Invariably it is primarily those systems that cost the most, that these types of new owners take the MOST pride in!...no matter whether they SOUND worth a damn or NOT!!...they figure that because it cost a bundle it just HAS to sound great!!...and they immediately endeavor to seek the approval of their aquaintenances by dropping equipment brand-names/models, and their price paid for each of them along with specs they have been reading up on...as they put these guests through the misery of having to endure the crappy sound!

Personally, I have found over the years that many extremely inexpensive systems actually sound pretty damned good...and some of them are simply astounding!!..IF the owner has paid any attention to the assembly of the system and has searched out bargains in good quality used items and such...UNLIKE so many who have more money than brains and depend on someone on a sales floor of a high-end audio store to make their decisions FOR them, as he mentally tallies up his commission on each of the high dollar pieces he is about to sell!!

[lynnm]

I have to agree that others frequently fail to understand the wisdom of my insights and this often leads to them buying and enjoying systems that I wouldn't waste my money on. That said - So &^%$#$#@#@!$% what ??

My point is that what I recommend is the best available so far as I know at the price levels that I can consider. Klipsch speakers are the best that I know of in their price range ,(but I have heard some Cdn.$1000.00 per pair speakers that might well be living in my living room had I not heard and bought my beloved KLF30's first!).

The notion that only a moron would fail to understand that Klipsch speakers are the be all and end all is utter nonsense. In most cases people will buy speakers that strike them as exceptional in some way. I bought my Pioneer HPM-200's because I heard them at a shop which also was a Bose dealer and while the Bose 901's sounded very good to me the Pioneer's sounded that much better.

I was aware of Klipsch at the time but hadn't heard any Klipsch speakers for years. The HPM 200's served me very well for many years and I make sporadic attempts to find a home for them but they are so nice cosmetically and sonically that I find myself not putting too much effort into divorcing myself from them. I don't use them but I am having one hello of a time saying goodbye.

{SIDEBAR}:

I did not buy my KLF30's to prove that I am an audiophile - I bought them because I heard them almost accidentally and was blown away by the sound - ( I A/B'd them with the RF7's and preferred the KLF's but it was a Bentley/Rolls comp and in any event I got a very nice price on the KLF30's which I preferred ) -

If someone buys Bose and is thrilled with with their choice then it is money well spent on their part even if I happen to believe that they could have done far better buying Klipsch. It is not my job in life to undermine another's joy . If they come to my home and are blown away by my system - then I will I suggest that they upgrade to Klipsch.

[SCOOTERDOG]

I remember years ago when Bose was pushing the AM5 system I was in Circut City and watched this pathetic demonstration. They had the sugar cubs on a stand and a drape that went down on all 4 sides to make it look like a floor standing speaker. They would do the ol demo and then Viloa! they would drop the drape and low and behold would be these 2 little sugar cubes on a stand. The Bose rep said pretty increditeble aren't they. I ask what the drapes? There must have been 12 people listening to this demo when I said this. The whole room chuckled. I asked how much and I remember him saying $699 for the 4 cubes and the bass modual. I said I could buy a pair of Heresy's for that price and really get my monies worth. He never heard of the Heresy so I started to explaine and I mentioned the Klipsch name. All of the sudden this guy got so wacked out he rushed to finnish off the demo and suffled all of out of the room. OMG this was so funny.

Ok I'll go take a prozac now

[Invidiosulus]

Doh,

The server glitched it appears and my long post disappeared.

Oh well, bose bugs me for sure but not near as much as I dislike those white van co. speaker people.

Thursday in my school parking lot I had a dude cuss me out because I said I thought his speakers were junk and I did not want to buy one of the "extra" pairs of speakers he had.

sheesh, made me glad I don't have to sell stuff like that for a living.

Peace, Josh

[michael hurd]

Very tough indeed ! I let others listen to my modest system, and they go ( wow, that is amazing ! ) They start asking all sorts of questions. I let them look at my humble equipment, and they can't believe the quality of sound, nor the quantity !

[TheEAR]

Classic Christmas B0$e stiries,always a good read.

B0$e cubes have have only captured part of the cheapo mass market BIG speakers sound,and added more coloration,more distortion and a fat price tag.

Last year I invited two good cutomers of our store who are B0$e fanatics to audition my "mode$t" Dynaudio main system,well no need to say they were "OH MY GOD,AH THIS IS INCREDIBLE,SO REAL" in awe and I bet they dont admire B0$e so much now. LOL

And for those who like the live sound with no sugar coating my "compact" Klipsch system really shows off what high impact is all about.

I still dont get how can Bose claim BIG speaker sound,not RF7 big,not Revel B15 gig bass.Probably sounds more like the cheap trash speaker that come with the Technics brand name badge.

Happy Holidays to all Klipschers

Shame on all B0$e owners

[DizRotus]

Recently I was in a good friend's home to watch a basketball game on his big screen TV. On either side of the TV he had Bose 901s stuffed into a bookcase. There was less than 2" of clearance on both sides and the top of each speaker. Each speaker had 8 drivers facing the back of the bookcase and 1 lonely driver firing into the room. To top it off, the Bose equalizer was not connected. They sounded awful. I briefly tried to persuade him to remove the speakers from the bookcase and to follow the owner's manual regarding placement. I suggested that he at least turn them around so that the majority of the sound was not trapped behind the speakers in the bookcase. He was happy with the pitiful sound the way they were. If he's happy, then I'm happy. It's his house and his music system.

I have given up trying to persuade anyone to adopt my audio preferences--or any others for that matter.

[kjohnsonhp]

I can image how hard it would be to be quite about someone bragging about a BOSE system as if it was a dedicated state of the art HT. The difference between a KHorn HT and a BOSE is pretty big!

Of course I hear the B&W and other audiophile nuts complain about Klipsch owners bragging about their systems, too. I once heard someone say to a Klipsch owner..."not bad for LOUDSPEAKER".

I was showing off my HT during a party...primarily wanting to show a select few that I'd been working on this HT project and had put together a system beyond just a Big Screen TV with vintage Klipsch, but most wanted to talk about the RPTV which isn't that unusual. I'm sure some where thinking, "what is this guy so excited about a big screen TV for?" A few actually wanted to hear it turned up so they got the idea. I guess I need the Dual Ultra to really make an impression!

I find it interesting that just about any audio/HT board ends up having a BOSE bashing thread. I guess that is a statemenet of praise for their marketing and innovation in channel price mgmt (Minimum Advertised Price-MAP) as well as customer satisfaction.

I would agree though that it's frustrating when you see BOSE deployed in an environement when you know a much better system could be deployed had the owner be exposed to other options but the previous comment about "what they don't know won't hurt them" is valid.

I'm a victim of now knowing what I didn't know before about video. I absolutely loved the picture quality of my analog 4:3 Pioneer 50" TV and DVD player. Now that I've purchased a new HDTV monitor and read articles of DVD playback flaws and how to spot them I've become critical and achieving the same level of satisfaction is now more difficult although with a new DVD player I'll be thrilled.

I remember when 901 was all the rage. My friend bought a pair of Cornwalls and visiters would almost always comparing them to 901's. Now the cubes are the Bose stars.

I have a pair of BOSE noise cancelling headphones--pretty expensive--but I love them as a frequent flyer.

I see a lot of BOSE cubes in the neighborhood (not always touted by the owners though) and I think they provide surround sound and music in rooms whose owners probably never would have purchased audio equipment before. The small size of cube and control unit become nearly invisible (often the difference between stereo/surround sound and NO stero/surround sound for some buyers). The integrated unit also seems to provide a greater ease of use than rack and stack.

There have been followers and probably better values in these sub/sat entertainment systems but clearly BOSE was the innovator (or at least the firm that brought the concept to the mass market).

I've been thinking of adding a sub/sat system some day to a room with a bookcase and 27" TV. I can use a standard stereo receiver but would need speakers no taller than 12". I was thinking of a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II ($150 for 2 speakers and sub). Other cheap options?

Energy TAKE 5 seems to be a great value at $600 and the Pinnacle system might be one of the better sub/sat systems but these are just perceptions. These sub/sat systems have their place as some rooms don't have the space for Heresys or speakers even close to that size and I think they sound better than TV speakers.

CSW seems to have started as a company that thrived simply providing a lower price for BOSE like equipment.

Now for my HT I use Klipsch Heritage and given the space I would agree they provide great value. I had real sticker shock when I auditioned a system from Definitive Technology with all the magazine awards. $3k for mains w/int subs, $1k for center, $1k for surrounds. My perception is that my Cornwalls, Academy, Heresys plus a new subwoofer system (ie SVS Ultra) is competitive sounding at over half the price.