Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, MMurg said: Now there is a pair sitting in my living room. These are the lowest distortion speakers I've ever heard. Roy patented the horn-loaded vented system. Read it for yourself: They are very nice speakers thats for certain! As I said the rear vent is just a bass reflex....The horn absolutely is not tuned to 20hz though. The BR section is described to operate from 35hz to 80hz.....No where in the patent does it say what the cutoff of the actual horn section, is...... I forget that the BR section is faced into the front horn....Pretty cool design though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MMurg said: When you publicly release performance data it can sometimes be considered a form guarantee during lawsuits. That does make sense.... Can't be held to what you never claimed lol! Some companies still share it though.....Genelec is a little more transparent than other companies for example. Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, MMurg said: @Camplo - I'm guessing you haven't been on the Forum long. You are arguing with the engineer who designed the latest Jubilee, the latest revisions to the entire Heritage line, and most of their cinema products. Yes this is getting entertaining 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 lotta post....still no measurements though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 Is it in common knowledge, the model of the woofers? The thiele specs? Xmax? anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Camplo said: They are very nice speakers thats for certain! As I said the rear vent is just a bass reflex....The horn absolutely is not tuned to 20hz though. The BR section is described to operate from 35hz to 80hz.....No where in the patent does it say what the cutoff of the actual horn section, is...... I forget that the BR section is faced into the front horn....Pretty cool design though That patent is for the original horn-loaded vented system. Roy mentioned in a recent post that the patent specific to the new Jubilee bass bin just issued. I don't have a link for it. However, you seem pretty certain about a horn you have never seen or heard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) I have seen pictures of the blueprints on the net.... One thing just popped into my mind though.....For sure the horn is not tuned to 20hz....I employ you to research how big an actual horn tuned to 20hz actually is btw.....we are talking 1/4wl tuning btw...BUT, I just was thinking about what to call the horn if not a traditional 6th order BP, or even untraditional.....on some level we can view the BR vent into the rest of the front horn, as a mass loading of sorts? Like a mass loaded TL but instead of the smaller section of the line at the end....its at the beginning? So of course the front horn isn't loading in the low but it still serves as a "mouth" or "waveguide" of sorts? Obviously a great design judging by the impression its left. All the bass comes from BR section, no less than any other BR....in this case the output of the BR is given further directivity and increased source size via the front horn/waveguide......Maybe the best BR design eva!? You can take the path length of the front horn to the mouth and find the matching quarter wavelength to discern cutoff....ballpark....likely a higher number considering the expansion of the line. If the BR section is tuned to 20hz, that sounds reasonable...In my experience, low tuned vents give the best Sound quality. Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Roy (chief bonehead) announced in this podcast 10 days ago that a patent has been awarded...something patent-able is this bass horn. Can't wait to actually hear one. Sorry..missed your post @MMurg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Camplo said: I have seen pictures of the blueprints on the net.... Are you sure you have found blueprints for the Heritage Jubilee on the net and not the older one? I wasn't aware of any plans for the new ones yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 Did someone patent the Paraflex yet? its almost the same but not lol.... Patent or no patent....if I want one, I'll just build it myself lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MMurg said: re you sure you have found blueprints for the Heritage Jubilee on the net and not the older one? I wasn't aware of any plans for the ne ones yet. Blueprints is an exxaggeration but this picture is good enough for me....Its just a BR box firing into another line section. Kinda hard to mess up.....Hornresp can possibly simulate this....most of the work would be surrounding the midrange and the cutoff of the front section...whatever resonante note you ended up with could be remedied in the XO. if the picture is true to scale and those are 15"s....the pathlength is what, 51"? If I'm not mistaken, the bends in horn will cause a low pass filtering somewhere..... Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 So, to sum up, you're in the process of assembling some DIY speakers that you think will be great. Good for you. Then, you look at the published specs of the Heritage Jubilee and decide that that the specs are incomplete, and somebody should do this odd test (you may think it's routine, but it doesn't seem to be at all familiar to anyone here) on their speakers to satisfy your curiosity. You likely realize that only one pair has been delivered at this point, so you're asking that new owner to get some gear and perform this test at a deafening 115 dB, again just to satisfy your curiosity. Since you're encountering some skepticism, and that owner has shown no interest in performing the test that you request, you imply that the company is hiding its speakers' specs for dishonest reasons, and you argue with the designer and engineer of these excellent speakers, belittling the major achievements behind these speakers. Sound about right? Clearly, you're just trolling, and trolls should not be fed. Why don't you buy yourself a pair of Heritage Jubilees? Then you could perform all the tests you like. In the meantime, why don't you just go back to your project speakers, get them completed, and stay away from this Forum, as you clearly have nothing helpful to contribute. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Islander said: you may think it's routine, but it doesn't seem to be at all familiar to anyone here well this isn't the forum known for designing speaker systems so I could see how it might be unfamiliar to the end user.... Asking for measurements is not trolling....Its really strange for you to insist it is. Closed mouths don't get fed....I don't know what I can get until I ask....imagine me googling something and someone like you comes along saying....."why are you googling that....you shouldn't google that"......weird lol! 19 minutes ago, Islander said: Why don't you buy yourself a pair of Heritage Jubilees? Then you could perform all the tests you like. A very silly thought! Do you know how much a pair cost? Imagine just buying one to measure it lol..... I've read performance specs of way more speakers and speaker systems than I will ever own. Theres lots of sources that are dedicated to such data....The 2nd gen Jubilee hasn't made it to any of the sources that I know of...If I keep digging I may find what I am looking for....if anyone has shared it that is. I've stated several times that the Jubilee design is pretty awesome....So your complaints of me dogging them are not holding water....I cannot tell you what to do....but if you don't post in my thread any more. I'm ok with that. Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Islander said: You likely realize that only one pair has been delivered at this point, so you're asking that new owner to get some gear and perform this test at a deafening 115 dB, again just to satisfy your curiosity. Theres a large large group of loudspeaker enthusiasts who cant wait to see such information... obviously loudspeaker design is not your passion... but as a speaker nerd of sorts, I find such information to be very interesting, especially measurements from such a large system like the Jubilee. Its sorta like how a car enthusiast knows the horse power, torque, curb weight etc etc of all his favorite cars.... lucky for him car manufacturers don't hide such info... a salesman who doesnt know the answer to "how much horse power" will say "just use your ears"... an educated car buyer wants to see some detailed data.... whats the gear ratio of 2nd gear lol! and there's absolutely know fault in wanting to know! It would suck for the car enthusiast to have to buy a camaro and a corvette and a pontiac gto just to know what the specs are.... or if their favorite make releases a brand new model...and they have the old model... but now all a sudden the manufacturer decides they won't publish specs anymore.... so you can't compare hp/torque to what you already have. But quite frankly.... no... I did not know that only one pair has been issued lol. Sue me. The Strauss mf 2.1 is an elusive speaker when it comes to measurements... its been around for a long time, still no one has shared or had a pair for a thorough review. The best speaker thats never been measured lol! Ever hear this saying? "Measurements don't lie....ears do!" we'll see how it works out, won't we! Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camplo Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dave A said: On this whole share your data stuff. I have people actually ask me to share my design and cut files for my tweeters like I would actually give them away. The answer is NO and if you really want it figure out how to do it on your dime and time. I don't blame Roy one bit for not sharing. The audio world seems to be full of people who can't figure out how to do things and then want answers handed to them by those who do figure it out. measurements don't tell you how to build something.... it just tells you how something performs. The measurements I'm talking about at least... like Thd. Thd is no more special than sharing frequency responses. If you dont share frequency response data of your tweeters... thats pretty weird lol if you want a bass bin like the jubilee design a bass reflex cab with woofers and port, on the front face, down the middle... place a folded horn of sorts in front of that..... things are much better when you can simulate them.... I think hornresp can sim this as it can sim paraflex which is similar but the backwave is tuned 1/4wl and exits into the "front horn" by the mouth instead of next to woofer, like in the Jubilee with its Helmholtz resonators... there I figured it out...I could build one and just test it right? Sounds like some fun for the future but I dont want to do it... sounds like work lol rather just view someone else's measurements lol!!! this design is kinda like La scala with a BR port firing into the line along with the woofer. Pretty clever if no ones done it till now.... Edited July 18, 2022 by Camplo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 6 hours ago, Camplo said: measurements don't tell you how to build something Probably beyond your pay grade but yes, design and machining data as I mentioned would allow another owner of design software and CNC machining capability to build an exact duplicate. I never mentioned curves anywhere in my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 7 hours ago, Camplo said: this design is kinda like La scala with a BR port firing into the line along with the woofer. Pretty clever if no ones done it till now.... That's not what that pic shows at all. I will make the assumption that you know the woofer in a La Scala has a 3x13 inch compression slot. That pic doesn't show anything ported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 7 hours ago, Camplo said: That's not a La Scala... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, Schu said: That's not a La Scala... 7 hours ago, Camplo said: this design is kinda like La scala with a BR port firing into the line along with the woofer. Pretty clever if no ones done it till now.... He never said it was. I have to admit I had tinkered around with a one piece stacked and milled Baltic Birch back side that eliminated all the angular and square points and replaced them all with arcs. Figuring like water the less turbulence introduced into the flow the better the output. Decided against building it because a horn that short does not give me the bass I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 12 hours ago, Camplo said: Genelec is a little more transparent than other companies for example. Yes and they sell ridiculously overpriced Direct Radiator speakers too. I guess most modern recording studios can afford the higher distortion too, since all they produce nowadays is Compressed Garbage recordings with a 2 db dynamic range on a good day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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