Clipped and Shorn Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 We could all learn something from our friend Les. fini's golf teacher * How to skillfully talk * How to skillfully make people feel important * How to skillfully agree * How to skillfully listen * How to skillfully influence * How to skillfully make up peoples' minds * How to skillfully set peoples' moods * How to skillfully praise * How to skillfully critique * How to skillfully thank -C&S The pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; the optimist, the opportunity in every difficulty. - L.P. Jacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan_j Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Well Clipped&S, I do agree "Les is more" in this case!! I enjoyed that website. I grew up respecting my elders, too bad it is not the case in this day and age. Manners I think are a thing of the past based on my young patients. I will come on by to the Klipsch forum every now and then to see whats new and always will. Couple of silent prayers for our fellow members loved ones in dire straigts. I think we can all relate. I have to remind myself if everyone thought the same there would be no need for a "forum" Guys, keep them tubes glowing and the Klipsch a'crank'n. See you all in a couple months:) Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 If you noticed, Les has already worked with Kelly. It's right there at the top of his bio. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 ---------------- On 2/5/2003 9:41:17 PM Bryan_j wrote: I grew up respecting my elders, too bad it is not the case in this day and age. ---------------- Is this because you are now so ancient, there is no one older to respect? Or did the notion just lose its appeal? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 C&S and NOS, Don't you think you're both pushing a bit too much "S". Get your feelings off your fingertips and back up a bit. When you both have needed advice and opinions in the past, you had no problem asking Kelly for some of his opinions. Now simply because he is not saying what either of you want to hear about your current project, you want to run him aground. As far as being open minded, niether of you could win any prizes in that department. Check some of your past posts to take a look at yourselves. If you don't like his opinion or view of something, or a piece of hardware, say so, make your case or not, and move on. Remember, YOU brought up the topic in a public Forum, and should be willing to accept all comments. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I'm new to this thread having just read it through end-to-end for the first time; I haven't conversed with Kelly on this, other than noting his passing comment that it was getting tough up here again. I know there is are a lot of you who believe I am Kelly's "butt-boy" but that's not the case at all. Hell, I've never even talked to him on the phone for all these months/years like many of you had. I hope to someday, or even drop by for a visit. Some of you are making the case that he's "high and almighty" ... but frankly I've never conversed with a more gracious, willing-to-help kind of guy. He has given so much of his time (how long would it take to write 3500 of those posts of his?) and has tried to offer the benefit of his learning curve. He has never once tried to cram his dogma down my throat, but if I asked him for an opinion on something, he gave it to me. I respect that in a guy. Too many people are overly PC these days, to the point of being almost ineffectual. For my own part, I'm new to all this so I'm learning a lot from all you guys. I try to listen ... Two years ago I was in Bose "Cube Land". Now I've got Wright SET amps and Klipschorns. I started out not seeking advice on component selection from those who have been there and blew a few grand on buy/sells because I didn't ask questions and listen carefully to responses. Hell, I just didn't realize asking questions was important. There have been a few posters on this forum who absolutely deserved to get run out of town; Hornsandtubes and Yankee come to mind. Talk about venom and ugliness. Hell, speaking of that, just go visit the General Forum for a minute and read the "Bombs Over Baghdad" thread. It's depressing to see that this board has become the sacrificial mantle for bleeding out negative emotions and long-suppressed anger over some unresolved personal issues. I've seen a lot of conversations on this board with Kelly that were fun, insightful and educational. But I think the value equation of this board for him has just flipped over ... I would be very surprised to see him frequent the forum only to take more abuse when he has better things to do that actually might generate some revenue for his family. I could be wrong, but if not, it's too bad. Really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I'm tired of tubes. I'm going back to solid state. Follow me, and I will take you back to the Promised Land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Chris, I agree with about 95% of your post. Kelly is very helpfull and on the phone very personable. But on here if left alone he just goes off the deep end. I think most of the problem is with his typing style. You cannot tell me you don't see that just about every problem on the 2 channel forum always has one thing in common ? Also there is another point to be made if you don't heed his advise he pulls out the sword and lashes you with it !! How many times has he written remember this, remember that in fashoin to prove that his word shouldn't be questioned ! The fact of the matter is he has to be put in check every so often or he runs rampant. What is this the 10th time he has stomped out of here like a child ? Craig PS... Oh and from working with him I can tell you first hand if we run him out of here we are doing him a favor and maybe he will get his real work done !! I've been waiting 5 weeks to get the final few things with my web page done and I'm sure it has something to do with my short fuse with Kelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Fortunately I am perfect and so I have no bad qualities for others to complain about. However, I understand that some people have this characteristic called "Being Human" and this means they are not as perfect as I am. No doubt they are jealous, but that is another Human failing. Jazman is right, everybody here (well, mostly a couple of ya) needs to take a chill pill. This is a public forum, people can (and do) say what they like. The preferred method for censorship is not censure, but censoring. Just don't read 'em if you don't like 'em. Just don't respond if you can't make your views known. Polite people, when faced with a fool, will change the topic of conversation in a tactful fashion, as has been attempted several times in this thread. Hey, did I tell you my tube preamp came back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I don't really have anything new to contribute to this thread, except for the fact that I've posted a few tube-related questions/new topics, trying to get an idea as to what kind of tube equipment would be suitable for this or that... I'm new to valves (having only owned an AMC CVT1030s tube preamp before) and I'm constantly learning all the time. I've had helpful criticism/pointers from kh, NOS440, Chris, deang, and many others, who've expressed their opinions on the subject at hand. I evaluate each and every answer I receive, and from what I read and hear from those more experienced than I, I then make a personal decision as to what's best for me, my current components, my music room, and my limited budget. I may not always agree with every response I receive, but I take it for what it's worth...an opinion expressed by a knowledgable bottlehead! I appreciate everyone's replies to any questions I may have, and after careful consideration, I make my choices and move on. IMHO, I see no need to get into pissing matches with others who may disagree with my decisions. What I hear and like are not necessarily going to be what all others like, but if it works for me, it blends well with my current system, and I can live with it, then that's all that matters. We all can't always agree on what's best...is the Cary better than the Dynaco, is the Basie better than the Foreplay...maybe there are "no best"! But don't tell me after I decide on let's say, an Audio Research or Sunfire tube preamp that I have a piece of junk just because you don't like my choice...At that point your criticisms are no longer helpful but hurtful, and I can no longer respect your judgement on anything audio related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 While relatively new here, I've been on listservs since the BITNET days. It only took a brief scan to see what is up here. Briefly, there are two kinds of listeners, music oriented and equipment oriented. These are left and right brain dominant types. In my case, I am testably precisely in the middle. Makes me jack of all trades, master of none. The music oriented types, and I know many of these in my recording life, may have 10 different recordings of a given piece and are able to tell you exactly which over held fermata ruins X, and which dalliance with a g minor chord makes another so special. When the DFW Klipsch group meets, the equipment head listens for about five seconds, then begins to stalk the room turning his ears this way and that...he's on the trail of something. It's the same response of the extreme music head in the opposite direction. Both these orientations are necessary and useful in our hobby. However, it can often be like trying to have a mixer with Vulcans and Farengi. Folks with Kelly's level of hearing in equipment matters are an extremely rare phenomona. It must be lonely up there. Frustration with the rest of us is understandable. I for one believe he is probably capable of identyfing tube types at -20db with Myron Floren on the turntable. However, neither that nor the ability to critique a performance of the Mahler 10th is in my present or future. That's cool, because I have others to help me with those things. That's why I am here. One of the things I've learned on listservs is to treat "virtual" insults as the "virtual" things they are. Save the sulphur for your boss or the person who steals your parking space. As for me, I blissfull listen to my K'horns wired with RS's best cable, my VT-70i, my Rotel TT with SME and Grado, and don't hear a thing except the sweetest music this side of heaven...except when the DFW Forum barbarians show up and start pacing from speaker to speaker! :-> You guys have a nice day... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 "I've been waiting 5 weeks to get the final few things with my web page done and I'm sure it has something to do with my short fuse with Kelly." Ya think? I am somewhat surprised at some of the responses regarding Kelly. Clipped -- Kelly merely opined that you would find triamping with external crossovers disappointing. Like it or not -- this is his opinion. You should simply counter with the reasons you made this choice, and why you think it's best for you. This is basically the purpose of any forum: An exchange of ideas and thoughts, with a high liklihood there will be a "point, counter-point" discussion of the thoughts. What has happened that should not be expected? We ALL know what Kelly prefers -- so what is the point in getting upset if he voices some negativity towards our choices? For the most part, I find his responses completely predictable. Sometimes I am surprised -- most of the time I am not. Poor Kelly, he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he pulls out the stick and whacks someone on a choice they have made -- he is an evil orge. If he is solicited for advice, and responds -- he is a savior. So, for the record: Kelly thinks good SET amps, and directly heated triode push-pulls sound the best. He also thinks old Eicos can hang with anything. He likes records better than CD's, and loves the sound of PIO's in most everything. He likes 6SN7 based preamps, and thinks cables make a difference. If you don't believe these things -- expect opposition. What? You expect him to agree with things that don't play in his mind well? Would you go into the HT or General Forum, and tell someone that has just decided to buy a Denon receiver -- that they made "a grand choice"? Would you offer praise to one who just threw down $1K on an amp you've heard, and knew first hand -- fell short? Maybe not even heard, but knew it was poorly received or reviewed. Can anyone here really say they can offer an opinion without predjudice? The true irony here, is that more than half the time -- his supposed "slams" are completely tongue-in-cheek. If you don't like what he has to say, then simply ignore the post -- there is no reason to go on a rant. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me -- but please, don't throw sticks and stones." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Hey now, Kelly doesn't think "old Eico's can hang with anything." Old Eico's can hang with anything. It really is a problem too. I am needing to buy some stuff (Basie and amplification) and should, if I were responsible, sell my present equipment to fund the new purchases ala our resident horse trader well known to all on this forum. I am not willing, however, to depart with my Eico and thus must manage to find a justification the wife is willing to accept on why I am creating yet another sound system. Hopefully, Kelly won't sit this one out too long. I, for one, enjoy reading his posts and advice. I don't recall many posts which directly contradict that advice either. Most who oppose his advice, later find out for themselves, and then come back and simply switch their opinions. Quite funny actually. NOS, I enjoy reading your posts and viewpoints as well. I would like you to reflect on one thing; you say every problem that occurs Kelly is involved in. Would it surprise you to know that you are generally involved in those same 'problems?' Not a criticism of any type, some people just don't mix well all the time; they should recognize it though. This, of course, when the problem involves long standing members of the community, not the 5 post troll - and we all enjoy just how quickly Kelly can dispense with one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Dave and Dean, great posts IMVHO ... You kind of nailed it. Craig: "What is this the 10th time he has stomped out of here like a child ?" Towards the "Human Being" traits, I don't think aversion to pain is necessarily a bad thing. My son Jack has learned at the ripe age of three that he really isn't Spiderman and jumping off the back of the couch head-first isn't going to make his day. I'm encouraged when I see that reservation in his face, for I know he'll probably make it through his teen years without purposely doing something stupid (it won't prevent him, unfortunately, from being unlucky). Look, I think that basically there are good hearts here, but take a read back in this thread at the PUBLIC BEATING this guy took. If I were him, I'd leave too! He has been coming here to raise the bar and share the benefits of HIS learning curve so that you might avoid some of the cost in creating your own. This is why the military trains and trains ... and trains some more ... its personnel ... Mistakes are to be avoided, especially when your life, as well as your comrades, is on the line. I think the zillions of posts he put here were beneficial. Like I said, I've never actually spoken with him but I would guess that he's got a keen - but subtle - sense of humor that you need to pay attention to, lest you miss it. In the haste of posting, sometimes the cues are missing or are not caught by the casual reader. And I also think that many of his posts need a careful reading to be fully digested. Chris PS: Craig, by the way, is the PWK book on its way to the next in line yet? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Chris, PS: Craig, by the way, is the PWK book on its way to the next in line yet? Thanks. I'm on the last chapter of which I should finish in the next day or two and send it along its merry way. What can I say so many things to do and not enough time to do them. Great read though !! On the Kelly front . Yes I have been involved many of the times that he has run into problems. Its not in my nature to let someone pick fun at me and stand there helpless !! But I personally have never had a run in with another member besides him. Can you say this about Kelly ?? I think not !! But this thread should Die a quick death I'm done with it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 >But I personally have never had a run in with another member besides him. Can you say this about Kelly ?? I think not !! Since you elected to throw one last barb, I am going to throw in one last dove. While I forget exactly what it was, Kelly once tossed what appeared to be a bag of s*** my way. However, in virtual land, you can really tell what's in the bag without looking. I asked for clarification as to whether he really thought I was stone deaf (not what was really suggested, but I forget...). He both apologized and clarified. I've found him quite the gentleman both off and on list when approaced properly. He inhabits lofty realms of audio discrimnation, a place I am glad he does and glad I do not. I am certain that to his ears, he is pretty much always correct. To deny your own thoughts is to court insanity. I do not envy his position...but I certainly understand it. Outtie... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Group hug, everybody! Hey, Kelly, you can be in the middle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Not until you get off of the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Went by the local Rat Shack. Nice digital decibel meter for 49 bucks. Real nice. Fini.....that's right,,,,where's my cane and I'll show you what for you young whipper snapper(as I wipe the white crud from the edges of my mouth),,,,, Let me "tell" you....back in my day...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Yuck!! (Good one, Bryan!) As long as you don't lick your lunch off your false teeth...(God, I've seen this before with Grandpa. Thankfully, no photos!). fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.