Balanced vs. Coaxial Interconnects

[The History Kid]

I'm a little outside my league on this and wanted some input from the bright minds here. Here's the situation.

 

I recently purchased a Cambridge CXN for a decent price - it's been the only source I've been eyeing at all lately since I don't have a lot of upgrade potential anymore in my space.  The CXN has virtually every output conceivable available, including Coaxial RCA and Balanced XLR.

 

The pre-amp section I'm handling is two-stage.  Usually my two-channel sources have run into my Parasound 200 PRE.  I'm using the TOSLINK and the USB input on this preamp, so the CXN could only use the Coaxial RCA or the standard unbalanced RCA.  The amp out is unbalanced from the 200 PRE to my 2250 and 2125.  There is also an HT-Bypass that runs to my Yamaha CX-A5100.  Here's where I get lost a bit.  The CX-A5100 has balanced XLR inputs.  

 

Am I better off using the Coaxial RCA to the Parasound or the Balanced XLR to the Yamaha? 

 

My understanding tells me that regardless of if the signal is balanced to the Yamaha or unbalanced RCA to the Parasound, it'd be virtually the same signal passed to the amplifiers because neither of those outputs from the preamps are balanced.  In addition, running balanced to the Yamaha would mean the signal would have to travel an extra stage.  Is my reasoning correct?

[hanksjim1]

anxious to see what others say as I am unfamiliar personally with the components...that being said, why not run coax out (digital) to the parasound and xlr to the yamaha?  Direct signal to both.

[The History Kid]

Just now, hanksjim1 said:

why not run coax out (digital) to the parasound and xlr to the yamaha?  Direct signal to both.

I have ample issues with ground loops in this system, and I am concerned that running things in that way would exacerbate the issue a bit.  Also, extra wire, which I'd like to avoid if possible.  Of course, I could totally be wrong, but I did decrease noise when removing looped connections like this before.

[wuzzzer]

Coaxial is a digital connection.  XLR is analog.  Neither are going to introduce noise unless a component is failing.

 

 If you go XLR, the upstream component’s DAC will handle digital to analog processing.  If you go coaxial, the downstream component’s DAC will handle the digital to analog processing.  For me it would depend on which component’s DAC was superior.

[The History Kid]

11 minutes ago, wuzzzer said:

Coaxial is a digital connection.  XLR is analog.  Neither are going to introduce noise unless a component is failing.

 

 If you go XLR, the upstream component’s DAC will handle digital to analog processing.  If you go coaxial, the downstream component’s DAC will handle the digital to analog processing.  For me it would depend on which component’s DAC was superior.

 

I know the digital vs. analog matter, it's just a matter of what is the best result.  So, here we have the DACs:

 

The Parasound uses a Burr-Brown PCM1798, the Yamaha a ESS SABRE Ultra DAC ES9016S.  On paper it looks like the ESS in the Yamaha should be the better of the two, but then my question becomes am I creating more issues by adding another stage between the source and the output?

[babadono]

My advice...

3 hours ago, The History Kid said:

I have ample issues with ground loops in this system

fix this first...

But I know nothing...Randy will tell you that.

[The History Kid]

4 minutes ago, babadono said:

My advice...

fix this first...

But I know nothing...Randy will tell you that.

 

It's already fixed to the best that it can be.

[babadono]

1 minute ago, The History Kid said:

 

It's already fixed to the best that it can be.

If you still have a ground loop it is not fixed.

[The History Kid]

Just now, babadono said:

If you still have a ground loop it is not fixed.

 

As long as I don't plug in a single source to both pre amps it isn't an issue.

[Schu]

why not try it both ways and see which one you like the best... I think, in general, that ESS (32 bit) has the upper hand over Burr-Brown (24 bit), but it's probably a personal choice... I am not really sure at that level if there is a big difference, though there is probably a difference.

ESS that is newer or higher in the line I would say is a better chipset for sure... but it's still no AKM4499. Topping has a pretty interesting DAC using the AKM4499 and is reasonably priced, but it's still single channel chipset as far as I know.

[babadono]

35 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

 

As long as I don't plug in a single source to both pre amps it isn't an issue.

So you 'Y' out of a source to 2 inputs on diiferent pre amps and you get a ground loop?

[the real Duke Spinner]

You simply dol not terminate the Shield at one end

[The History Kid]

Guys, I can appreciate the commentary on the looping noise - but I've resolved that issue in this system by taking the steps I outlined by simply not having two sets of outputs on a unit running to two inputs on two preamps - which for my purpose would be redundant anyway.  My current question is the one mentioned having to do with the best connectivity, and thus far Schu's been the only one that's even addressed it.

[babadono]

Okey dokey...sorry. Would bug the sheet out of me.

[RadBlue]

First off, If you use the xlr from the Cambridge thats an anolog out so you already used the dac in the Cambridge to do conversion so no point in going threw another  dac. Also if the Parasounds dont have balanced circuits then any bonus to using the xlr in the first place is lost. To get the full benefit from xlr the chain must be balanced from start to end.

So I would just go with one of the digital outs( this bypasses the Cambridge dacs) and then use whatever dac that floats yer boat downstream.

 

[The History Kid]

2 hours ago, RadBlue said:

 To get the full benefit from xlr the chain must be balanced from start to end.

 

This confirms my thought.  I just wasn't entirely sure since I hadn't dabbled in balanced outputs at all prior.  It's a shame the 2125 nor the 2250 have balanced inputs.

[JohnA]

XLR/balanced cables are a technique for cancelling noise in long cable runs, especially in high gain circuits like microphones.  Nothing else to it.  Depending on the EM environment around your system, they may or may not reduce noise over RCA shielded cables.  They will not make things worse.  Try them.

[babadono]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:33 AM, The History Kid said:

 

This confirms my thought.  I just wasn't entirely sure since I hadn't dabbled in balanced outputs at all prior.  It's a shame the 2125 nor the 2250 have balanced inputs.

To clarify a balanced connection can be used between any 2 components in a system. Does not need to be the whole chain whatever that might mean.