sseymour Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Can anyone who uses a denon 3803 or 5803 receiver help me, please? I am considering one of these and I have the following questions: 1.) How well does the video conversion work? This is the feature where it can take an S-Video source and send it out to the monitor as component. 2.) Is there a perceivable difference in the amount of bandwidth (50MHz for the 3803 & 100MHz for the 5803) that is usable for component video signal? I would have consiered the 4802 but it doesn't do video conversion, and I would like to have only one video output going to the tv. Anything else that can be contributed here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Name Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 If you don't have an HDTV it's not going to matter anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sseymour Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 I understand that, I have a progressive scan DVD player, and HDTV cable baox and an HD Monitor. Thanks, -Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudestmonkey Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 1) the video upconversion works great 2) the 3803 has 100 mHz video switching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosekevin Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Don't get a Denon! I have an AVR 3600 and it's a piece of crap. I've blown the same channel (left front) twice in two years - and of course when it's out of warranty. Asked Denon to cover the second repair, because obviously something is wrong with the unit. They would not offer to cover ANY of the repair. Depending on your budget, I'd recommend Rotel or Yamaha. Just letting you know before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanski2 Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 ---------------- On 3/7/2003 2:53:24 PM sseymour wrote: Can anyone who uses a denon 3803 or 5803 receiver help me, please? I am considering one of these and I have the following questions: 1.) How well does the video conversion work? This is the feature where it can take an S-Video source and send it out to the monitor as component. 2.) Is there a perceivable difference in the amount of bandwidth (50MHz for the 3803 & 100MHz for the 5803) that is usable for component video signal? I would have consiered the 4802 but it doesn't do video conversion, and I would like to have only one video output going to the tv. Anything else that can be contributed here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Scott ---------------- Back in November when I was putting my home theater together, I got a chance to have a 5803 for a couple of days. I originally purchased Def Tech System BP2002's, CLR-3000 center, and BPX surrounds, along with a Pioneer Elite VSX-47 Receiver. The Pioneer sounded great but had a shut down problem at near reference volume level due to the Def Techs low impedance. I returned the Pioneer to my local dealer, paid the difference and (upgraded?) to the Denon 5803 due to it having a different type of power supply. The Denon functioned flawlessly and sounded incredible. The video conversion was great. (I run all my component video, composite and S video signals thru my receiver then to the TV) However, it did lack some flexibility the Pioneer exhibited. The Pioneer allows you to listen to one source, for example DVD and select a different video source like satellite to view on the TV. This was an important feature for me due to the fact I like to listen to the radio and watch ESPN until they show something interesting enough to listen to. I had problems with the Def Techs a few times, (one of the fronts came with a bad tweeter the sub amp in the other front toasted itself while I was cranking the Denon (these Def Techs bad built in 12" powered subs the are also mirror images of each other and it took six tries to get the correct speaker to replace the one with the bad tweeter). I got fed up with the whole mess and returned it all. I traded the Denon for a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi and the Def Techs for the Klipsch RF-7 set. (The store has a 30-day satisfaction guaranty) I kept the Super Cube Sub because it just plain kicks butt. This new system is incredible and I couldn't be happier. The only good thing about all this was the opportunity to hear this caliber of equipment in my own home for a test drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snails_Pace Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 ---------------- On 3/7/2003 2:53:24 PM sseymour wrote: Can anyone who uses a denon 3803 or 5803 receiver help me, please? I am considering one of these and I have the following questions: 1.) How well does the video conversion work? This is the feature where it can take an S-Video source and send it out to the monitor as component. 2.) Is there a perceivable difference in the amount of bandwidth (50MHz for the 3803 & 100MHz for the 5803) that is usable for component video signal? I would have consiered the 4802 but it doesn't do video conversion, and I would like to have only one video output going to the tv. Anything else that can be contributed here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Scott ---------------- The video conversion works very well...though it's more for convenience sake (i.e. running all A/V inputs over a single set of component cables) than for an upgrade in picture quality (so if that's what you're looking for, you might want to consider another solution). I have noticed no appreciable loss in detail on the component to component hookup (progressive DVD into receiver, prog out to plasma). However, on your lower-end signals (composite, s-video), it seems to depend more on the quality of the comb filter in your source equipment versus the one in your TV than on any kind of switching in the reciver. For example, the Panny plasma has an exceptionally good comb filter (IMHO)--LD and NTSC cable look best on the composite input (check the avsforum plasma board for LOTS of discussions on this topic) because a. LD and NTSC signals are composite to begin with b. the LD and S-VHS vcr have crappy comb filters of their own c. the Panny plasma has a really good 3D adaptive comb filter on board I ran a LONG series of tests running composite and s-video outputs from our LD and VCR to the receiver, and out again as either composite, s-video, or component to the plasma. In all cases, the VCR and LD output looked best on composite, though the differences in performance going from the s-video VCR output to component were almost negligible; LD looked a bit worse on component regardless of which signal I fed the receiver to begin with. I figure there just isn't a way for any passive composite/s-video to component converter that they might use in a receiver (even one as nice as the 5803) to come close to the performance of a good adaptive comb filter, be it outboard in a deinterlacer/scaler, or internal to the source or destination equipment. Note that I have NOT used a high-quality s-video output (like from my old Denon interlaced DVD player) and converted that signal component, so I can't honestly say what differences might appear in that conversion process. However, I think the thing to take away from my experiences (not to say it will be universal, just what I noticed) is that at the very least, the component signal will look as good (or as bad) as the source material you're feeding the receiver, but I doubt you will find it looks any better just because you've done the up-conversion to component. Just my $.02 - J.T. Stuff my wife thinks I have more fun with than her... Denon AVR-5803 (Receiver) Panasonic TH42PWD5UY (42" ED Plasma Display) 2 Klipsch KLF-20s (Left / Right) 1 Klipsch KLF-10 (Center) 4 Klipsch KLF-C7s (Side and Rear Surrounds) 1 Klipsch KSW-12 (Sub) Denon DVD-1600 (Progressive DVD Video/Audio Player) Pioneer DVL-919 (DVD/LD Combo-Player) Yamaha CDC-735 (CD Changer, only used as transport) JVC HRS8000U (S-VHS VCR) Panamax 1000+ (Power Conditioner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Moose This is the first time I have ever heard of someone with a major problem with there Denon. My family has been using Denon for a long time and we never had problems with ours. My father has the 3800 and he bought his when they first came out, he still using it and has never had a problem. Have you ever ussed anyother reicever with your set up? Maybe there is something else wrong hear than the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richierich Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I like the video conversion and I have not seen any picture degradation using svideo and component inputs and I'm tired of switching inputs even though I'm about ready to include a Phillips IPronto remote to handle video switching as I have an HD Tivo and still have to switch that to RGB1 on my plasma because of the DVI input. Anytime you feed thru a receiver there is a chance of slight loss of PQ but with the 100 MHz bandwidth there shouldn't be much. However, after looking at HD Tivo I hardly want to switch back and watch anything that is SD including stuff on my SD Tivo with 240 gigs of HD. I like the receiver and I use the surround back speakers for my outdoor speaker function. So I just select 5.1 in the setup and I can turn on and off my outdoor speakers and control the volume. Fantastic.It also has a video select feature so you can switch to monitor video other than the audio coming in for simulcast functions or if you want to watch Headline News but listen to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 ---------------- On 3/8/2003 3:12:43 PM moosekevin wrote: Don't get a Denon! I have an AVR 3600 and it's a piece of crap. I've blown the same channel (left front) twice in two years - and of course when it's out of warranty. Asked Denon to cover the second repair, because obviously something is wrong with the unit. They would not offer to cover ANY of the repair. ---------------- Okay, so based on this isolated incident, ALL Denon is Crap??? I love people's logic. But he's right, I actually saw an article that said NO Yamaha or Rotel has EVER broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 ---------------- On 6/3/2004 8:42:38 AM toddvj wrote: ---------------- On 3/8/2003 3:12:43 PM moosekevin wrote: Don't get a Denon! I have an AVR 3600 and it's a piece of crap. I've blown the same channel (left front) twice in two years - and of course when it's out of warranty. Asked Denon to cover the second repair, because obviously something is wrong with the unit. They would not offer to cover ANY of the repair. ---------------- Okay, so based on this isolated incident, ALL Denon is Crap??? I love people's logic. But he's right, I actually saw an article that said NO Yamaha or Rotel has EVER broken. ---------------- I must say that I have owned and used Yamaha products since 1977 and I have NEVER had any problems with any of them. I love my Yamaha RX-V750, it setup easy, loads of features including seperate vidio and audio at the same time. It is a rock solid workhorse of a reciever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 ----------- However, it did lack some flexibility the Pioneer exhibited. The Pioneer allows you to listen to one source, for example DVD and select a different video source like satellite to view on the TV. This was an important feature for me due to the fact I like to listen to the radio and watch ESPN until they show something interesting enough to listen to. ----------- Actually, you can choose different audio and video sources with the denon. All you gotta do is pick your audio source and then click the video select button and toggle through your video sources until you've got the one you want. As far as denon goes, I really like their home recievers. They do have a good history of making things a bit akward to work with at first (especially their cd players), but they always sound (in my opinion) much better than anything else in it's price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 ---------------- On 6/3/2004 9:51:38 AM cablacksmith wrote: I must say that I have owned and used Yamaha products since 1977 and I have NEVER had any problems with any of them. I love my Yamaha RX-V750, it setup easy, loads of features including seperate vidio and audio at the same time. It is a rock solid workhorse of a reciever. ---------------- I think you missed my point. I'm sure someone somewhere has had a Yamaha receiver that went bad. And they are probably out there saying "Don't buy Yamaha, because..." It's stupid to condemn an entrie company because ONE of their MILLIONS of products went bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pako Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I have really been enjoying my AVR-3805, just a little up from the 3803. I have throughly enjoyed it! It seems to 'know' certian things. The auto room eq setup with the mic worked great for me as well. Sound quality was exceptional for the price range and for the receiver I was upgrading from. The up-conversion is more of convenience than anything else, as it was previously mentioned. I like the fact that I only have two video inputs on the TV to mess with now, Component 1 for everying hooked up to the Denon, and the DVI input for HTPC or standard computer work (Grand VVEGA 60 LCD). The learning curve on this thing is a little less intuitive than other receivers I have encountered, but there isn't anyting I haven't been able to figure out. The controller is pretty cool to. It's so tempting to take it apart to figure out how it works...but past experience tells me to just leave it be (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Still waiting for the rest of my speakers to finish off my 7.1, so I can't comment on the sound quality of 7.1 yet, but if it's anything like 5.1, I will be greatly surprised. Cheers and good luck. BTW - If I remember correctly, for 1080i programming, the minimum bandwidth is like 42mhz compared to the 100mhz of bandwidth available. I have been told that people experience just brighter, more vivid image with the extra bandwidth. I have no way to confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 One thing i do like about denon is their reliability. I push mine to the max and it still keeps coming back. Just solid and quiet. For seventy watts it's screams too. Harman is great too, but they need to take a tip from denon on quality parts. Your gonna have a bad egg once inawhile. By the way Pako nice camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Speaker Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 That's a cool photo Pako! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 I must say. As far as reliability my denon has been excellent. I have a 3801 that is going on 2 1/2 years now and it has been flawless. This was my first denon product I ever bought. I had onkyo products for many years and enjoyed them with great pride; in fact I still use my M504 power amp to drive my La Scala's. Anyway when I decided to get into Dolby digital, DTS etc I went with the denon because at the time pound for pound against the onkyo it sounded better and had the options I wanted that the onkyo didn't. I have never been disappointed with my purchase. Kind of off topic from your question but I needed to put my 2 cents in regards to denon quality. Scooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pako Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 It's kind of sick, but I took that picture so I could have a desktop image of my 3805 for my desktop image here at work. I just miss it too much when I'm away from it. Maybe Denon would like a Hi-res version of it for their site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danderson Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Advise please! I am a rookie in this HT world and the last amp I purchased was just after the last moon landing- a Pioneer.I am at work now so must keep it short. I recently picked up a pair of RF-35's and that's all it took, it's like listening for the first time again! I haven't laid on the floor for hours listening to music since my youthful party days. After weeks of reading these forums, reviews, and store visits. I finally picked up a new AVR-3803 for $750 and a RC-25 to begin building my system(I know, they're supposed to match but my credit card was getting cold feet, and I have 30 days to upgrade).My problem is after setting it up last night I have major reservations about the sound-it just sounds tinny. There is no bass, it sounds weak and this is with the Pure-direct on, which is a feature that really sold me on this unit. All 3 speakers are set to "large". The antique Pioneer to me sounded great but thats the sound i'm used to. Is this that incompatability problem that crops up once in a while? How does yours sound? The dealer even told me that when I purchased the speakers and I was looking at Denon. Thanks much, someday I'll get around to a proper intro on the forum and start a profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Danderson, I also have a Denon AVR3803 mated to RF3II/RC3II/RB5II and I have yet to feel any lack of power of this receiver. It does not sound tinny at all in any mode. Something has to be wrong there. There are so many variables that affect the resulting sound quality. Source, interconnects, setup, etc. Btw, I am pretty sure that old Pio did not have a source direct mode. So when Pio was in your system it did process the music (I guess with some treble/bass boost on). However you are comparing it to pure direct mode in which Denon does not process the audio signal at all, just passes it over to the amps. If the source is not of high enough quality, then raw signal might sound tinny, as you know the universal rule: garbage in, garbage out. To make the comparison fair turn Denon in Stereo mode and apply similar treble/bass settings. I am sure your impression will be completely different. AL24 processing alone makes a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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