JLM Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Being new to this extensive forum and lazy, I'd like to ask: Does the quality of sound from the RF-7's come mostly from design, build quality, or the efficiency of the speaker? I've gotten the impression over the years that Klipsch fans like it very loud. And so, not being one of those, I've steered away. At the same time I'm a big believer in brute force and that just a brute extra "beefy-ness" can cover a multitude of other short comings in many things in life. Take audio for instance. Oversized amps won't clip. Speaker cones/diaphrams that are bigger move less per dB so they distort less. Tube amps distort less under less power. All this points towards more efficient speakers distorting less and sounding better. But I'd like to hear from you all. Is the Klipsch sound quality (lets avoid the whole issue regarding the "horn sound") due mostly to better drivers, better design, or increased efficiency. thanks, jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 You said it ,quality,design,eff.These things plus decades of experience all come together to make a very good low db or hi db's speaker.You will not have to crank for great sound,but if you do,they will.I listen at all volume levels,even low the 7's sound very dynamic.That said,it really comes down to value.For the money Klipsch makes very good speakers,a 2k set sounds better than many 5k sets I have heard.In studios,horns,at a concert,horns,at a local club,horns.I see few tweeters in pro applications.And of course Klipsch with tubes is a natural via eff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flux Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Efficiency gets you more more SPL with less power, which means you don't have to mortgage the house to buy a 200 watt amp. As far as the actual sound goes, the best thing going for them is controlled directivity. Early reflections are minimized so the in-room frequency response isn't destroyed. The RF-7's definitely benefit from better driver technology. The irony here is that the magic happens with the cones. They are extremely light, rigid, and well damped -- which means the efficiency starts to climb. There is good synergism between the cones and horn. A well designed fourth order linkwitz-riley brings it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 The RF-7's don't suffer from the 'horn sound'. Good or bad depending on your point of view. No squawker, no earbleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 the idea that the only thing klipsch speakers are capable of is high volume is wrong. so many "audiophiles" seem to think this way, and it's just wrong. klipsch have their sound, just like B&W have theirs. everyone has their own preference, but to all the "audiophiles", I really suggest sitting down with a pair of RF-7's, or Khorns, and just enjoying the music, rather than thinking of how much color they're adding, or the fact that they're sold at best buy. I think if these people could get past this, they could really enjoy klipsch, but they seem to be too caught up in the audiophile cult to enjoy anything that might not be thought of as "audiophile grade." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Absolutely. That's it exactly. Klipsch consistently finds a way to let the music through. Even with their colorations, Klipsch speakers do a better job of getting out of the way than just about anything out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I run my RF-7's with a 2 watt/channel Decware Zen Select tube amp. When I compare the Decware with my Musical Fidelity A3CR 120 watt/channel SS amp there is no contest, low power tube wins hands down. The RF series is a great speaker but it's high efficency allows you the option to use a multitude of low power amps that put out just a few high quality watts. Doug C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 doug, I'm still really considering some of those zen's for my RF-5's. the select. if I do, I'm going to get 2 of them and bridge them to 5 watts each. how much of an improvement do you think these would have over my Mcintosh SS MC-2105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 JLM, Speaker cones/diaphrams that are bigger move less per dB so they distort less. To a certain degree this statement is true. However, (there's always a however), especially with direct radiators bigger, heaver material is not necessarily the answer. What happens at higher frequencies and higher power is that these big cones start to flop (break-up) creating more distortion. Smaller speakers have the same problem but not quite as much. Because of their size and efficiency the Khorn, LaScala, Cornwall, etc can get loud and are distorting less than something smaller. They also sound great at lower volumes. The use of horns has a lot to do with their clarity. Convesely a smaller speaker (regardless of it's quality) cannot match the power output of an equally designed larger one. I agree that loud music is not the best reason to get any particular speaker. It is in all those bloody details that makes speakers good. But I must say that I love my LaScalas with the likes of the 1812 Overture!!!! Now I am climbing down from my little self made soap box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 DeanG "No squawker, no earbleed". Better than that screechy titanium single midweeter horn on the RF-7 though. If they are sooo good. Why are you continually rebuilding the crossovers to make them sound better? I'll keep my so called ear bleeding squawkers, thank you. You must have paired them with inadequate gear or you have the high frequency hearing of a woman, I would guess the latter myself. To each his own I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 lol, harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen328 Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Never heard anyone called a woman for their hearing range. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I thought women generally had better high frequency hearing than men, as do children, was I wrong? tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 You are correct Tony! That is my point. Maybe its too sensitive! Maybe some testosterone injections are in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I must be one of those with "HF hearing like a woman" - I am extremely sensitive to high frequencies - and when they're extremely loud and extremely pronounced, it's pure torture to me. Gee, no wonder I love my S38's - they're easily the least sharp of the JBL Studio line. In fact, hardcore JBL heads tell me they're "dull sounding"... So I guess I oughtta stay away from the Khorns, eh? Personally, I think the Synergy towers have a wonderfully smooth top end - perhaps it's the aluminum tweeters vs. the titanium found in the Reference stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I'll keep my squakers, thank you very much. I can melt into the sound of my cornwalls. Earbleed is an unfamiliar phenomenon with me and the cornwalls. I think my HF hearing is pretty good. When I walk into the house and either one of our TV's is on (one on the same floor, one upstairs), I can immediately hear the HF whine of the TV (not the speaker), even when it is upstairs and I'm downstairs. In fact, my Scott 299A has a slight buzz which my wife doesn't even notice. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 LOL - Don't quite know to respond to that one, I can't figure if I'm been insulted or not. Truth is -- I don't hear squat over 15khz. You're not really being fair. I've only done two crossovers, and the second version isn't even in the speakers yet. Electrically speaking, the parts I'm using are identical to the stock PCBs with the exception of the tweeter circuit, which is down less than a quarter of an ohm. Hell, all I'm doing is using better parts. I think the RF-7's are good enough to warrant the investment. C'mon now, it sure isn't like people aren't modding their Heritage speakers. I think all Klipsch speakers sound somewhat 'screechy' without some decent gear behind them. You should also know my 'ear-bleeder' comments are always tongue in cheek -- because I really liked the Cornwalls on the Scott. I'm sure you followed my posts where I spent a lot of time eating crow. I just think the RF-7's sound cleaner somehow. The bottom is tighter, and the top is smoother, and they definitely go louder without losing their integrity. But yeah, to each his own. We all get used to a certain thing early on -- and we compare everything to it like a baseline. I like a good midrange, but I don't want to be run over with it. Did you catch John Warren's thread a little while back where he yanked the squawkers on his K-horns and replaced them with quality direct radiators? Not one person said a negative thing about it, and yet I get constant grief for trying to make my RF-7's the best they can be. I'm starting to get upset, must be that female side coming through again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 no grief intended by me dean. I too think that all production electronics can benefit in some way from upgrading parts...caps, resistors, inductors, opamps, etc. YMMV diminishing returns, etc. (I don't want flames about this issue either! lol) regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 If the bottom end of the RF-7's is anything like the KLF-30's, then I'd have to agree that they are tighter and cleaner than the cornwalls. That was the one area where my old KLF-30's were better (in my room and with my ears etc. etc.) than the cornwalls, in the low end. Tight, deep and clean. The cornwalls are no slouch in the bottom end, I just had a slight preference for the KLF's. As to the original poster's question: Design experience (use of high efficient components/designs) of Klipsch makes them a great speaker, especially heritage. It is said that the components in the heritage are so-so, but the design and implementation of them are what really makes the speakers sing. The build of quality of my KLF's seemed pretty good, but just not as solid as my cornwalls. For example, the plastic cover for the speaker wire terminals was bulging out a bit. Plus, there was the whole issue of the glued backs falling off! With the RF's, I'm sure these issues were resolved (can't confirm). The efficiency and resulting lack of distortion and solid SPL's (85-95 dB) is awesome... but demands a clean preamp and power amp end for low wattage listening. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I think the whole bright, and screeching thing is based on distance, i could set up a RF-7 sit 2 feet away and be happy, im doing this with a Klipschorn, and its drilling my ear! left k-horn is right next to me when im online! Hell i can reach over and touch it! I could play louder with the cornwalls, and the wife, and kids Vs Klipschorns, which shows my house is way to small, of coarse i knew this already! When i stated i couldnt hear 4 chorus over the K-horns, i think in reality i was better off with those Vs the size of the house with Klipschorns! Same on the cornwalls, i may be going back to a set of cornwalls, for the house, and ill place my 1975 Klipschorns on display! So when you hear , they squeel, are to bright, there just in the wrong room placement! These K-400s have a very high direct output, like a drill going thru a rock! The altec 511s dispurse the sound, in a wider spectrum , if it wasnt for the 100Hz difference i think id be using them! I still have them, there in there own boxes painted up nice ready to use anytime! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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