Deang Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Kelly, It seems I missed something in your post. I'd like to respond to your comment where you said you thought it was depressing that I was back on the either/or approach. I don't think that's completely fair. It is true that for me, I think it is either/or -- but I didn't mean to come off like this applied equally to everyone. There are at least a half dozen posts by me in the last several months where I stated that those with the big horns had options open to them that others here might not. I also stated as many times if not more -- that it was completely dependant on musical tastes and listening habits. My post in question was primarily in response to your comment regarding those who "have moved on to Single Ended Triode solutions, after the 14w showed what could be done with so little." I probably should have clarified that. I don't think I'm near as dogmatic about this stuff as some others here are. I suppose it might be better if I stayed out of these threads unless I have a question or have something positive to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Guy, I am not pissed. Read your second post to this thread its pretty obvious with the rescent corrospondence between us that this is nothing more than you trying to get your jabs in at me and to goad me into something. Dean seen this and we have not conversed or emailed in days. Why would you even add such a redicules end to your statement ? Whether everything is up to spec electrically with your Marantz (I knew you owned some snob appeal product) or not isn't the point with this gear. Capacitors become stale and lifeless sounding after 45 years and were less then steller sounding when new compared to current capacitors I bet. The only major developments in current tube audio sound reproductions are parts quality availabilty to refurbish and build new amplifiers with everything else "trying to reinvent the wheel". At least 95% of the amps I recieve whether they be Scott, EICO, Fisher or whatever brand jump up several levels in sound quality , Clarity , transparency you name it once the 45 year old caps are replaced with something made today of reasonable quality and designed for audio use even though the caps all test within Spec. Also I'll mention that 40 year old caps are a ticking time bomb they give no warning when the are going to short , become leaky and can cause some serious damage. leaving them in is nothing short of reckless. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 This is the end all to this topic, if everyone agrees. + PP 85dbs.--------------------------------------- - SET Tom P.S. can't we all just get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Craig--what's with this "snob appeal" BS statement? Are you saying that anyone with VALUABLE gear is a snob? If that's the case then F.U. buddy! You'd LOVE the Marantz 2 by the way . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 Craig is right. I must sell my snoby Marantz model 2 and buy one of those highly renovated and modified "NOS VALVES" Scott amps . Can I keep my Wadia 861 or should I also replace it with a Sony cd changer a la Craig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Allan, I in no way wanted to offend you I was replying to Guy's holier the thou attitude as of late in a tounge and cheek fashion. I have absolutely no problem with someone owning and loving the Marantz but to be honest unless it was acquired years ago is hardly a value in sound quality per dollar spent in today's world. Its largely a collectors Item. Although it has to be a great investment if "bought right" and I'm sure it sounds very good. Marantz tube gear is just one of many Snob appeal Items from the golden era collected by many as a status symbol more than for the music it produces which may be awesome don't get me wrong. Its no different then the $40K amps that get purchased today most purchased by rich people that just want to say Hey look what I own it cost 40K. I mean be reasonable what would it cost to acquire a Marantz model 2 in this day and age ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Guy, Grow up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 "...this place doesn't belong to you and Dean." LOL -- where did that come from? Yeah, you can share any info you want, but you shouldn't use the forum as a vehicle to insult and degrade ("...your clients are probably deaf...He is just a technician..."). Joe Rosen is great, but has to be one of the most miserable people on earth. I don't think he likes much of anything. I do know he likes the Marantz 8B. As far as anything using the 6BQ5 goes -- he hates them all equally. http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vintage&n=15484&highlight=299+joe+rosen&r=&session= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 "Marantz tube gear is just one of many snob appeal items from the golden era collected by many as a status symbol more than for the music it produces which may be awesome don't get me wrong." Careful Craig, you're treading on Holy Ground. These amps were the best there were, and miles ahead of the modest 299. Hell, the Scott 265A's were miles ahead of the 299s. Most is of this stuff is still better than just about anything in current production. I like snob appeal. It means it's probably pretty good sounding stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 ---------------- On 8/13/2003 11:39:05 AM DeanG wrote: "Marantz tube gear is just one of many snob appeal items from the golden era collected by many as a status symbol more than for the music it produces which may be awesome don't get me wrong." Careful Craig, you're treading on Holy Ground. These amps were the best there were, and miles ahead of the modest 299. Hell, the Scott 265A's were miles ahead of the 299s. Most is of this stuff is still better than just about anything in current production. I like snob appeal. It means it's probably pretty good sounding stuff. ---------------- Dean, I do own 3 (renovated) 265A's as well (there goes the snob appeal $h^T) and think that they are in the same league as the Marantz 2's . I am not trying to fight. Just wanted to prove my point that there are better amplifiers than the Scott 299's for equal or less money. Let's end this discussion, Please . Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Ah, do we have to stop bickering -- I'm having such a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 For the lurkers...a pic of the 265a is attached and here's some data from the hhscott web site. Distinctive rose-anodized chassis and maroon transformer covers Dual-level inputs: ( 0.5 & 1.5 volts); with level controls; Variable damping control (frica"0:1 to 0.5:1); Variable "Dynamic Power Monitor" output limiter circuit (from 8 watts to full power); 10 tubes: (2) 12AX7 preamp/splitter' (4) 1614(JAN)/6L6GC, (1) 6080 (6AS7G mil spec) series pass regulator, (1) 6AM8A dynamic power monitor (2) 5U4 45 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Guy, The bickering started because of your insults and twisted remarks that were clearly a attempt to get back at me because I simple don't agree or will not sit back while you accuse me of wrong doing while other are doing the same basic thing with your support. I have no clue what you problem is these days and really could careless anymore. Dean, I'm sure the Model 2 is indeed a great amp but easily matched for less $ spent sound quality wise its a collectors item with a cult following. I have never said or ever will say a Scott 299 is the end all heck I don't even listen to one in my main system anymore ! But I wonder why old Guy uses the Marantz as his main system when he says the Scott 265 is its equal. You betchya !! Snob appeal (again no offense intended at Allan) Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 A close friend and I were talking on the phone the other day about "vintage" amps vs "modern". We both agreed it was unlikely there have been ZERO advancements in amp design and technology over the last 20-30 years. With that in mind, he relayed a statement made to him by a respected audio hound. The idea was that a "vintage" amp is kinda like a vintage car. Just about anyone can appreciate an Austin-Healy 3000. They look very cool and perform like a champ. But I wouldn't want to drive one every day if I had a 2003 911 Carrera 4S in the garage. That being said, I LOVE my NOSValves Scott 299(A). At the same time, it won't replace the Cary in my main system. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I LOVE my NOSValves Scott 299(A). At the same time, it won't replace the Cary in my main system. Amen to that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 ALL, Gosh! After all this I want to sell my Scott 299 MKII, the first $250.00 offer gets it! Tom P.S. YA RIGHT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 A pair of Marantz 2 in excellent condition might easily fetch 6 to 8 grand. A pair of nines might go for up to double that. I once owned a pair of nines--I sold them to get enough money to put a new transmission in my pickup circa 1981 or so and to pay off some other bills that were getting stinky old. I sold them SOLELY because they were "worth" more than anything else I owned at the time (a whopping two grand---OUCH!). The guy who bought them ABSOLUTELY did so because they were both rare and highly thought of. Snob appeal? Guess so . . . but they are still effing GREAT amplifiers and I'd take them back in a heartbeat. Those 8 EL-34 running in triode are about as good as P/P gets. Worth the money? If you've got it to spend, WHY NOT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Allan, I agree why not especially when you can resell later without a loss. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Craig, One of the reasons I stopped posting was I really tired of reading so much of what I considered "crap" that you write. I jabbed at you because I was sure you would, as always, fall back on the "snob" or "audiophile" accusation when you have nothing more intelligent or informative to contribute to a subject or issue. You came through true to form. Boring! To all Forum readers, BTW, few appreciate finding "bargain" or "value" in audio gear more than I. I consider the HF-81 one of those bargains/value. I've never said anything negative about Scott gear. However, there are times when one attempts to achieve a desired level of "refined" quality, and very often there is no getting away from the requirement to part with some serious cash. Therefore, I also own 2A3 Moondogs. I've never claimed SET is the solution for everyone, it just works for me. Craig has always seemed to have trouble with my willingness to spend some extra cash to attain refinement, and seems to resent those who do opt to spend a bit more cash for whatever reasons. I've endured his nonsense arguments and rantings enough, so I generally choose to avoid any thread he posts to, which seems to be almost everything. I still enjoy reading the many interesting posts, but I generally have not had the time to write worthwhile responses which would avoid circular arguments. I've also been spending most of my time listening to and enjoying "MUSIC", which is supposed to be what this is really all about. I will however, have something to contribute on the subject of 2A3 tubes in the next couple of days. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 It sure helps to have some value retention or even appreciation when dumping $k's into audio. I've been reluctant to dump $3k into a pre/pro or receiver that will depriate dramatically as the rapidly changing DSP technology evolves...kinda like the PC market. I might be more willing to park some money into a product if I thought I could get the cash back. 2-channel gear like amps and pres seem to hold value better. I'm not sure how the numbers compare when investing in rebuilds...probably like restoring an old car....often it's a better value to buy one someone else just sunk $20k into but it's hard to find that buy and rebuilding is the only way to get the product to where you want it. The vintage collector's items like McIntosh and the others mentioned here have supply and demand and the collector's bug working in their favor. I don't think snob would be the right word...investor/collector maybe? Perhaps these brands are still leveraging off their brand equity from when they were new. McIntosh was perceived as an upgrade...like Caddilac used to be. Those with nostalgic memory remember the brand equity. Many will spend big $ on McIntosh because they have confidence in the equity retention and marketability...plus they want to play them, etc. I would like a '32 Ford rebuilt with all new mechanics...not a hot rod w/blower but a nice 351 or the like w/AC, power, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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