What do you want your system to do best?

[AndyKubicki]

Is it imaging?

Is it being dynamic?

Is it frequency response?

Is it being airy?

etc, etc, etc?

[fini]

Impress chicks.

Uh, my wife and daughters, oops.

fini

[Allan Songer]

I want a piano to sound like a piano, an alto sax to sound like an alto sax, etc. That's all. Pretty tall order, but I think I'm there.

[NOSValves]

Allan,

Brilliant response !

Craig

[mobile homeless]

craig, you ever heard an alto sax on your system?

[Guy Landau]

at least his amps are not clipping.

[ChrisK]

Fini,

I finally clicked the link in your signature. Very funny stuff, especially the "...Open Letter To Young Girls" from Ahnold.

Thanks again for the laugh,

Chris

[prodj101]

----------------

On 9/3/2003 2:45:26 PM Allan Songer wrote:

I want a piano to sound like a piano, an alto sax to sound like an alto sax, etc. That's all. Pretty tall order, but I think I'm there.

----------------

I've never heard a system that can come close to producing any of the sax's. not even the mega bucks. they never quite have the dynamics.

[NOSValves]

Kelly,

Maybe I have maybe I haven't I could really careless. I'm pretty sure Allan's point was ....... He wants the instruments to sound like they do live ! Isn't that what were all after ? Well now that I think about maybe some of us are not at all interested in accuracy.

Craig

[artto]

Got that right Craig!

[artto]

IT'S A L I V E!!!!!!!!!!

[marksdad]

everything you mentioned should be there equally, it is in mine and it is wonderfull

[Mallette]

I want it to disappear.

(No smart remarks. I keep the doors locked and don't forget this is TEXAS).

Dave

[artto]

I'm from Chicago. And we don't keep ours doors locked. Enter at your own risk.

[Mallette]

Well, in Texas, we hate to waste ammo. Pain in the butt to have to unlock to drag the body inside, but the sheriff says it keeps the paperwork down.

Dave

[artto]

Like I said.....we don't lock our doors. No need to drag the body inside. They already done that for us by walkin' in. 'Enter at your own risk'. Your sheriff actually keeps does paperwork? There's no paperwork in Cook County!

hehehehehe

[AndyKubicki]

I want a piano to sound like a piano, an alto sax to sound like an alto sax, etc. That's all. Pretty tall order, but I think I'm there.

That's strong! I may not agree with your position on mono recordings, but I think you hit the nail on the head with this statement. I must admit that when I see things written about a system as being "airy" or other such dramatized adjectives, I become sceptical. But i can relate to what you said here. This became very obvious to me one night as I was comparing some vinyl to redbook CD. When I first got my cheapie Scott TT, I grabbed the first record and CD that I could find that I had one of each. It was a Yes record, and I heard very little, if no difference at all. Well, there are a lot of electronic instruments on their material, this one was Going for the One which is quite electric. After some more listening, I found that the more obvious differences were recordings which had acoustic instruments, the piano in particular. Redbook piano just did not capture the piano sound as well as vinyl did, and there it was! It's as though redbook cannot get all the harmonics that vinyl can capture. So imaging is nice if you can have it, but give me the closest you can to "real" as possible. I will add that dynamics also are important as dynamics do convey power that is in music, and if your system cannot be dynamic, something is lost. Did I miss anything?

[mobile homeless]

Ultimately, I would want a combination of all those aspects listed with perhaps the top goal being the great statement from Allan (see what I feel supersedes even THIS below). And I find this task to be hard to achieve but some systems get closer than others. For me, quality tube based systems seem to catch the harmonic structure and tone of the instrument best, something that solid state, even the better examples, can sometimes miss. The point of the live, unamplified instrumentation being slightly more difficult is valid although I will say that good setups can distinguish the type of electric guitar and amp combo just as well. Although most that know their electric instruments and amps can figure this out even on mediocre gear (the diff between a Les Paul and a Stratocaster is not hard to discern), the ability for a proper system to reveal the full qualities and tone of the electric instrument is equally important.

Your skepticism about the other qualities such as "airy" shouldnt be too entrenched. While I dont like that word as much as some others, a system's ability to recreate the AIR around the instruments or the ability to "see" the instruments in a three-dimensional space is another aspect I hold important. And imaging /soundstage fit in here, especially via live recordings with proper mic placement and minimal processing. While I dont say the word AIRY, I do say the word AIR in this way. Systems that excel here tend to let the notes decay and also float without sounding two-dimensional.

Of course, dynamics is another important area and this, luckily, is where horns really do excel over the typical dynamic loudspeaker. You hear some talk of macro and micro dynamics or dynamic shading. This is hard for a system to get right, especially BOTH right. I also consider it important to be able to reveal these dynamics AT LOWER VOLUMES as well. Having to TURN UP the system always for it to bloom fully can be annoying. It's nice to hear these type of details bloom at low AND higher volumes. OF course, you dont want everything to collapse and meld together at high volume either, bringing compression and loss of separation.

Add to that RHYTHM and pacing. You want the setup to Groove and feel nimble, not slow as if the musical timing is lost. This might sound rather esoteric but it's a definite quality and the better systems leave your feet tapping, even to music you dont like! Some SET amps can lack this feature, actually, sounding more slow. Ditto with certain SS.

I have achieved all of the above in various systems, sometimes one highlighting a part over another.

But when all is said and done, after the years of messing with this, I have found THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of my system must be its MUSICALITY and the ultimate ability TO MOVE ME AND IMPACT ME EMOTIONALLY, far beyond just an intellectual level. Systems can have amazing resolution and detail, yet bring little stirring of the soul. I find that many of the modern solid-state mega systems to LOSE OUT BIG TIME in the musicality and emotional aspect. This is where VINYL, TUBES, AND HORNS can really come to the aid. Not only can they bring the great tone and harmonic structure to the table, but they can Also convey the emotion and involve you more as a listener. This is a hard thing to define and, ironically enough, something a cheap system can accomplish with someone listening to music they love which moves them. On the other hand, getting ALL the above IN ADDITION to the musical nature of the event, is the ultimate.

A sax can sound like a sax, but if the system fails to get you emotionally, it has not achieved its its ultimate goal. The modern Audiophile sometimes gets lost in all of the above too often, and is left emotionally bereft while listening to music that is designed to bring the goals of imaging, detail, resolution, and soundstage. It's a sad place to be after amassing all the gear...

kh

[artto]

When you really get it right (and the recording is reasonably good), others will begin to describe (your system) what they hear by discussion of the music & musicians themselves. In terms of their locations, how they are playing, the sense of place, how the music moved them, the emotional response. They start to comment on the music & the performance itself. This is particularly important if it comes unsolicited from non-audiophile types as they are not in the least bit interested, therefore not biased, but still feel motivated to expound on it. Any discussion of things such as pace or air or any other potentially subjective positive terms is for fools & egos. HINT: It means it isnt right yet.

[whell]

List of priorities, probably in order:

- Catch and hold my < 2 year old daughter's attention when she is fussy. For reason's we can't explain but are eternally thankful for, Nora Jones can transform my little girl from fussy one minute to captivated and quiet the next. Has worked like a charm since she was 6 month old. Also, when I put a record on downstairs, she will sometimes sit quietly at the top of the stairs and just listen. Sometimes she will pull herself up on the protective gate and sway to the music. Chip off the old block, that little princess!

- Since my wife and I don't get out much these days, give us a place to escape and watch a good DVD and cuddle.

- It must also competently play childrens music. "Old McDonald" and "This Old Man" through Klispch are taken to a whole new level!

- Provide "music to live your life by" - i.e., elevate the enjoyment of being indoors by providing enjoyable music in the background.

- Bring me "music to have a midlife crisis by", as I pass through the early stages of my 4th decade and pull out the music I enjoyed in my teens to enjoy and experience all over again.

- Give my wife something to have on in the background during the day the she can enjoy, and a system/remote that she can easily operate.

- Hey, its a hobby, so I also play and experiment with new equipment when I can afford it, try new placement with speakers, etc.

- Not too often, but every once in a while, I can steal away and put on music I want to listen to at volume levels that I designate, and allow myself to just enjoy! At these times, Mr. Songer's comments come front and center. I want the instruments to sound like one would expect them to sound.

Not too much to ask, is it?