arthurs Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 As an owner, I will tell you the Nautilus 802's can be pretty freakin' amazing, and will remain crystal clear at extraordinary volumes as well. For live music, I will always be an RF-7 man. All that said, I finally heard some well-driven KHorns at a friends and I can begin to see my future..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 My old lascala's with the Mac 60's back in the early 90's.The mac's need work now and the lascala's that are here now don't sound as good as the older ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Kjohn, I am going by my few (5) listening sessions and the budie that has owned them for 2.5 years; and has regrets. ML has issues. I would go the B&W 800 series first. And I dislike most dome tweeters. People committed to SS amplification tend to like ML, B&W and most likely Legacy or VPMS. I always like tubes as a kid so liking Klipsch was a naturl direction for me. Meeting you fellow forum nutcases was cetainly not natural! HEHE Rick "da plastics ngineer" Audio Flynn cranky old forum fart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 The most musical speaker.... Well, one connected to an amplifer that is producing a useable signal is more musical than a speaker that is still in the shipping carton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 I've read a lot of great things about the GR Alpha (compared to VMPS rm40 for example). The Oct Texas DIY event will be a good opportunity for me to hear them with all tube gear (from Dodd Audio). They are monsters though--even for a Cornwall owner--too tall. http://www.gr-research.com/AlphaLS/Alpha.htm For disappearing and producing a life-like sound they seem to be a candidate...it's just hard to ignore a monster like these towers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 William Shatner gets my vote for LEAST musical speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Artto, personally I wouldn't slam any speaker too bad because of a "Tweeter" audition. First, Martin logans are very hard to dial in, and "tweeter" seems to focus more on looks than placement. Second, the only decent form of amplification with the power requirements for a M&L they carry would be B&K and honestly they're only going to do it well at a very low volume. I know, I have a ref 7250 I've used on my M&L Odysseys.(which is what my tweeter store was using) Esl's are power hungry, and I hear they are best driven by tubes. I don't know for sure as I've never heard them through tubes. I use a pair of Aragon Palladiums. Actually I must have blown a internal fuse or something yesterday on one (palladium) when I got a little crazy on some old Michael Jackson. At least I hope thats what it is because one died. So I can attest that they do require quality power. They also require a quality source. Thats one of the main downfalls of M&L's, you need to be prepared to spend some money on what goes in front of them. Placement, size, and room treatment are the other main considerations. As far as sound, I find my Odysseys to be spooky 3-d sounding on the right cd. They can be brutal on a bad cd in my very bright sounding room. The large panal is super-fast and can give incredible seperation and air. If your into jazz or classical I think it would be tough to find a better speaker. Rock and rap may be better suited for something else. Anyway I didn't buy my speakers from tweeter but I have heard many an audition there. Usually they ended up sounding alot like an overdiven ss amp. I can assure you none of the auditions have had the impact as what I have heard at my home. Heck, I find sometimes any of my systems are apt to sound good on some days and bad on others on the same cds. Maybe its my power or something I dunno. Anyway, any speaker placed wrong or hooked up to the wrong equipment can sound bad so I gotta stick up for the M&L's here. Though I don't care much for the sound of some of the smaller ones. My two channel stereo: Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Aragon Palladium amps Cary Audio 306/200 with analog volume control Harmonic Tech Magic link One interconnects Analysis Plus Bi-oval 9 cable Other stereo Rf-5s Scott 299b or 222c Sony 333-es cdp Ht Rf-3 Rc-3 Rs-3 Denon avr-3300 as pre B&k 7250 as amp Panisonic rp-56 thats about to go as dvdp M&K mx-125 sub Original monster cable and m-1000 interconnects Did I miss anything? whew, I need to sell some stuff and integrate and combine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 As mentioned above, the amplification is critical with MartinLogan electrostatic speakers and average electronics are much more problematic here (and what is more average than most SS amps). I am trying to imagine what "tweeter" carries that would even attempt to do MartinLogans much justice. B&K once made some great amps but I havent heard this company since it did a total reorganization years ago. Ed used to be a good thing at B&K but I think he departed when that company shifted. I have heard the B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks via the Martin-Logan Sequal II and they did a credible job to the point of instigating an amp sale. Then there is setup. I will say that most quality home systems do far better than even the better HIFI-Huts, not to mention something as mainstream as Tweeter, where the setups dont get the attention to detail or matching that is needed. Unfortunately, making hard and fast equipment judgements from these places is problematic at best. I have heard several pairs of MartinLogan speakers such as all the versions of the Sequal and Sequal II. I have heard them sound very nice from the mids on up but not especially cohessive as the blending of the woofer on the bottom with the panel top is a tough nut to crack. On the other hand, they did some things very well. Electrostatic solutions can be AMAZINGLY FAST and TRANSPARENT. Sadly, it is the blending of the cone drivers that produces headaches. I think MartinLogan has gotten a lot better in this regard. Finally, it's tough to slam a product when the whole system is in play, any which can be a culprit in the reproduction. And a place like Tweeter is highly likely to have many bad variables in the mix from setup to system matching. On the other hand, ironically enough, within is range, I would probably say the top end of the MartinLogan electrostatic is probably a more accurate speaker than the Heritage Klipsch although LESS musical (I dont have the same interpretation of the term musical). Would I chose them? Probably not as the range in question can be pretty narrow and the needs from the amplifiers very specific. Tube amplification on MartinLogan has never been a loving bond. And ultimately, the MartinLogan solution never really moved me emotionally although it can be a ruthless tool in uncovering gear upstream. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Got to be another vote for the B&W 802. Not sure about the comment someone else made about no tubes though - I have a few tube amps in mind I would love to throw at those things - all PP of course and 70 - 300 watts. I am sure we will find one to drive them. Actually I would also like to throw in an honourable mention for the Final 0.3 electrostatic hybrid speakers being driven by audionet amplification (the max appropriately enough). Really beautiful sound.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I owned a pair of the original series B&W 801f. For my money, that was by far the most musically pure (and accurate) speaker I've ever heard. It sounded gorgeous. Unfortunately, it simply did not have the ability to play loudly enough with enough dynamics for me. It sounded best with tube amps, but short of a 600 watt solid state beasty it simply would not go loud - and with the 600 watt solid state beasty (at least, the ones I could afford) the sound got much harsher. I finally gave up. Second to that, my 1974 La Scalas with Al's crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 As long as we are listing brands outside of Klipsch, I will mominate ProAc as a whole brand that really makes speakers that do the music justice. Stewart Tyler is a very talented designer and seems to get the best from what he uses. I have always liked their various monitor offerings from the Tablette to the Response series. They define the term "musical" in the best sense as they dont dissect and take apart the whole like some of the other audiophile offerings. Some other good monitor speakers come from EPOS. I generally like less complex speakers and didnt like many 3-way solutions besides some of the horns. I prefer simple two ways for monitors with minimal xovers. I have heard the B&W 801 and the highly acclaimed Wilson Watt/Puppies combo. Neither one of these solutions struck me as emotionally involving, especially the Wilson Watt/Puppy. The 801's are famed as reference monitors but for some reason, never floated my boat in a big way. Both of the above do some things VERY well but as for making music, which is what I assume is the question, I would not nominate them in the top spot. The 801s were MONSTERS with that bass cab construction. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted September 21, 2003 Author Share Posted September 21, 2003 "'Musical', in this sense, to me, is another subjective perception description which implies a "having pleasing harmonious qualities". Which is another way of saying the audio component has a specific coloration." Hey Artto, are you a polotician? I thought it was a straight forward question. I beleive everyone on the forum understands the obvious roll that the driving components have on the sound quality, but Jesus..... From your first post, it sounds to me like you don't like you Khorns and Cornwalls. How long have you owned them, and why havn't you sold them for something you do like. By the way, what speakers do you like, if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 In Artto's defense, he does seem to love Klipschorns/Belles as his system revolves around them (used in a 3 channel config). I do understand what he was trying to say here but I dont actually fully agree with the semantics. I hear the wors "accuracy" thrown about a lot, usually when discussing solid state amps in relation to those "inaccurate" and colored tube amps. With speakers, I dont find ANY that are without colorations of some sort, especially in the horn department. Still, it's how they deal with the colorations that is important. Every single component I have heard has colorations of some sort. In Artto's defense here, he has attempted to construct a room that would reduce the effects of colorations in the acoustic domain. Still, many would argue that gear such as the Linn, tube amps, Audio Research SP-6c, etc all have distinct signatures just as the mighty Klipschorns do. But I do know what Artto was saying here. I just dont happen to agree with his semantic take on the word "musical". And accuracy is also another very relative term given the various ways it's measured. A speaker with a flat frequency response can sound dreadful as some models in the past have shown. They is a lot more going on than just frequency response. But dont get on Artto too quick. He has put a lot of work into his room and system, much of it based around PWK's ideas. While I dont always agree with him, I do think he brings up some valid points to consider. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I love my horns, and if we're talking about live dynamics, clarity and power, they are the most musical (like live music) speakers I have heard. But if we're talking about some other particular qualities associated with "musical" sound reproduction, such as depth of image, smoothness, etc, then my vote would probably go for Sonus Faber Cremonas. Actually, smoothness may not be an attribute of "musicality". It's arguable, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Or maybe Fran Drescher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 In the spirit of Large Advents (owned a pair in college, tossed them several years ago when the foam rotted before I knew I could how good they were), my vote goes to the Allison Nine. They are waiting for me to refinish the cabinets. These speakers could paint the slightest brush strokes of Carl Allen's drumming. But my exposure is limited compared to many of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Few seem to really follow this, but my opinion is this. When a person says "That's the finest sounding loudpspeaker I've ever heard." it's pretty much a death sentence. It either sounds like music, or it sounds like a loudspeaker. I've been fascinated by the paeons to the old Large Advent. An AR-1 done right? Couldn't afford them at the time, and never even heard them, but would have bought them in a minute. Nice to know I'd have been happy. My K'horns are limited only by the room they are in. I can hear that clearly. Even then they can disappear from time to time as they should. Perhaps I'll be able to provide them the space they require someday. Until then, I'll just suffer. ;-0. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Funny, for I took the meaning of "musical" exactly the same as Artto. The sound coming from a music box is "pleasing" to the ear, but it certainly isn't accurate by any stretch of the imagination When someone says, "it's a very musical speaker", I understand that to mean that it's very pleasing to the ear, but colored. Accuracy isn't always pleasing -- but the Largers were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Don't we buy all this crap to listen to music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 LOL, Yeah, that's why we use Klipsch -- but sometimes it's kind of neat to settle in with something rich and creamy. I don't always drink my coffee black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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