Thoresa Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 hello! looks like everyone got alk networks here..I got a pair of 74 khorns, the crossover type is AA, but lately I`ve noticed that something is wrong with one of my speakers. The sound is "falling out". It seems like the connection is bad somewhere. IMHO I think it has to to with the crossovers. Do u know where I can get information about ALK crossovers? What`s the price, and where can I get these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 You're looking for the honorable Al Klappenberger. http://www.alkeng.com/ alk@alkeng.com 1-410-546-5573 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Before you start pointing fingers at the crossover I would take a look at the amplifier. If a channel is dropping out and not just a single driver in the Khorn, the problem lies with the amplifier and not the speaker's crossover. I would do a little more troubleshooting before diving right into a crossover swap. If it is an older amplifier the relays in the speaker switching circuit get dirty over time and will require cleaning. If you have a channel that drops out and you have to tap on the amplifier or turn it up more to get the channel back chances are very good that the trouble is with the amp. Without a doubt the ALK custom crossovers will make a difference in the overall response, the source of your problem may not be related to the crossover at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoresa Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 I know, but I`ve checked the amp..nothing wrong there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Im not sure what gear you have but it sounds like a dirty volume control also check all the connections at the crossover...loosen them, clean and tighten all connections.Do simple stuff first...you can clean volume control yourself with contact cleaner from radio shack.On ALK subject, i built mine my self,they sound good but not alot different,you can build a AA crossover with modern parts for alot less money.On my ALKs,the bass seems more defined to me,need more listening to say anymore, only had them in a few months,but i did have fun building them and i built them to exact specs. as AL sugests so if you do build them make sure you do it right.....rick p.s. if the problem goes to other speaker when you switch wires around its not the crossover for sure,,,try this first to make sure you start on right end of problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoresa Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 the amp.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoresa Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 my system is not the best..but I`ve been student for a long time now, and I recently got a job, so im planning to upgrade it real soon. Nad 319 sd200e khorns 74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 PLEASE check all the wiring on the speaker, jiggle and visually inspect the wiring everywhere looking for fraying, tight bends which may have finally broken the stranding, the connections at eveyr point, etc., also, I have found sometimes that solder joints on the x-over can come apart, the parts do not move so you cannot see it but if you grab each wire, resistor, coil and jiggle you may find some points just held together by "habit"...please check all of that before thinking about a new crossover. you may also have damaged the drivers, lots to check before dumping the x-over. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hi, I also am suspicious of the wiring. I would check that first for secure electrical contact, i.e., reseating all of the contact screws, etc. Then I would check out the drivers for correct operation. After that I would swap the speaker cables on the speakers themselves. If the problem moves with the speaker cables then the problem is upstream in the component chain (or the speaker cables themselves). After all that it can be assumed that the xover is the problem. Generally the drivers fail from exceeding excursion limits (time will also be a factor). Crossovers usually fail due to solder-joint oxidation (again time and humidity). Capacitors are also subject to environmental fluctuations and can oxidize or chemically break down over time. Check out Al's ALK xovers, they are expensive but excellent, I have a pair myself and highly recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Thomas I must also agree with the above posters, to look somewhere else before swaping the AA with an ALK. Check your AA networks for any shorts or blown components too. Also, when I was at Klipsch last summer Trey showed us the graphs of Khorns in the chamber comparing the output of the AA and ALK networks. Basically the responce curve of the two were very close. I don't think the ALK will add much if anything to your Khorn experiance, compared to your existing AA. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoresa Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Thank you very much for all your answers..When I bought the khorns, they vere painted in red. I thought I could redecorate them with teak veneer. This work is soon to be finished. Pictures will come When Im finished I will also try your suggestions. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Thoresa, I guess I'll have to jump in here to defend my "babes"! Don't be fooled by response curves! That's only the beginning. Compare the response curves with those of any loudspeaker of any brand you like. Most will be flat, but do they sound alike? Not by a long shot! There are more variables than you can count! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 "There are more variables than you can count!" Of that, there can be no doubt. I can almost count them, but man, what to make of it all -- that's when the real fun begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Thomas, I have La Scalas with Type AA or ALK crossovers depending on my mood. You need to identify the problem before you spend the money on Al's crossovers. They are excellent and made from top quality components. I recommend them heartily. However, you need to spend money on the known problems before introducing another variable. The Type AA is a good design and can sound quite good if rebuilt with premium components. Modified this way, they will sound much like the ALKs, but retain the Klipsch voicing. To me, that sounds mostly like less tweeter output. Have you removed and cleaned the connections on the barrier strips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 John is correct. The AA has a symmetrical tweeter filter. That looses 3 dB off the top when driven from a "voltage source" like a SS amp. The big failing of the AA is the very poor load impedance they provide to the amp. They go up to 29 Ohms in the middle of the squawkers range. Some amps (tube types mainly) don't like that! I have posted curves comparing mine and the AA on my web site. What improvement you will get with mine over the AA is a function of many factors. Frequency response curves mearly check the levels out of each driver and for driver phasing. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I don't think she has bats in her belfry. There's a pair of khorns on audiogon right now that the seller claims has the exact same problem. The khorns that I looked at locally also have the same problem according to the seller. I didn't get a chance to hear them though. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1071078076 One unit has slightly lowered output since 6 months ago, possibly due to crossover problem. AL, Can the original crossovers be tested and fixed if found faulty? Roughly, how expensive of a proposition would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Yeah, do check all connections. I have problems with my homemade crossovers using barrier strips and spade lugs, similar to Klipsch. Those are in a high humidity location. I had another odd problem. I was quite convinced the source switch on my old JVC amp was going bad. One channel would drop out. Moving it from Aux to Phono and back would clear the problem. It would come back in a week, and the same solution would work. So I took the JVC's cover off, cleaned the switch with tuner cleaner. Good for a while, but same thing occured. So I figured the plating on the switch was shot, it was old, and what can you do. But, then later I discovered the feed wire to the banana plug at the speaker was loose. It's been okay since. The lesson is in keeping with other experiences with weak or loose speaker connections. The sound gets scratchy, drops out, may come back. A strong signal will be just enough to re establish the bad connection. Or maybe it is the small d.c. offset from the amp. It was very enlightening. Playing with the suspect source switch would temporarily clear the unknown problem at the speaker. A new one on me. I too have wondered about the effect of the high impedances presented by the Heritage on amplifiers. Just as conjecture, maybe the feedback loops on some amps are not pleased. And perhaps triodes, lacking feedback loops, are more happy. But this is pure speculation. Al. K's swamping resistor obviates the issue. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Busa, Yes, crossover netwroks can easilty be tested. I do it to every one I build! All you need is an amp, a CW signal generator, load resistors and an AC voltmeter. I guess the trick is knowing what to test for though! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Thoresa: Don't just inspect the speaker connections on the amplifier and crossover input. Also look at the connections on the drivers, themselves. Check your interconnects, as well, both on the source end and on the amplifier input. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 tweeters are also known to be blown, by previous owners, sometimes. There is a shop in Florida that fixes them fairly cheaply, and if you are mechanically minded you can get the diaphragms from Electrovoice and replace them yourself for even less. The type AA is very good, I wouldn't mess with it, unless you have money to throw away. If you want better, make it into a type A (by disconnecting a few parts) or build a new type A from "high quality" parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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